Fu*%face Von Clownstick

Making my point Rico. If you don’t want to play, don’t spread your legs. Difficult perhaps, but simple at the same time.
 
(And while I agree that this thread is about Trump, it’s also clear that it has the evolved over the years into a catch-all for political discussion.) which explains all the abortion and transgender “derails”.
 
Shadowscape said:
We are talking about Donald Trump being a crook, a liar, an asshole, a trader, a con man, a thief, and leader of sedition.
Attacking transgender people or gay people has nothing to do with what is being discussed, but some keep trying to weasel it into the conversation. Repeatedly. Seems to be their quest in life. And a few want to turn it into a political red/blue battle. It is about a jerk who has no business being president of this country, not, "Look at Hunter Biden", or, "What a clown Joe Biden is". Go start a red vs blue thread, or a Hunter Biden thread. This is a:

Fu*%face Von Clownstick​

also known as, Donald Trump thread. Agree or disagree but leave gays and transgender people out. Inserting them into this conversation only shows the world what agenda you have on your mind.
Or no and continue being a dork.
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So you want to discuss one side of a coin, but no one is allowed to defend it by talking about the other side of the coin (belief/opinion of politics etc). Um OK, that is totally fair.
 
climbhightree said:
So you want to discuss one side of a coin, but no one is allowed to defend it by talking about the other side of the coin (belief/opinion of politics etc). Um OK, that is totally fair.
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So what do transgenders have to do with the other side of the Donald Trump is a loser coin? If you can explain that to me I am all ears. What does Hunter Biden have to do with Donald Trump is a loser coin? Still listening...
If you want to tell me why he is not a loser, then go ahead, but what is the point of dragging people who have nothing to do with whether Trump is a loser or not into the conversation other than to bring some agenda of yours into play that has no bearing on the issue at hand.
If I say Trump should be locked up for the rest of his life, and your CLIFF NOTES response is that gay people should not be allowed to get married because they can't produce children, can you sit there and tell me that is the other side of the coin as to whether Trump should be in jail? That is just being a jerk.
 
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climbhightree said:
No this is the only tree forum I'm part of, mostly because it stayed out of politics.
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Politics has always been kept to Off-Topic. I would be curious to see a word count about what the stats are to compare OT with the rest of the forum. Take some time to look back in the archives, politics have always been here.
climbhightree said:
And until the last few years it kept a even hand on no personal attacks or belligerent posts/threads.
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I've been getting clobbered about any sort of moderation for about 22 years...nothing new.


Other threads get shut down, yet this one keeps going because at least one admin completely agrees with it...so that makes it OK

Threads get closed but never deleted. I've closed threads when they've devolved into nothing more than circular bickering with no forward movement in the chatter.

Occasionally, like in this moment, I send a PRIVATE message asking a participant to consider HOW they are saying something not WHAT is being said.
The amount of tension that's generated by OT...and this thread...is the worst part of being the moderator. There are times when I think OT should just get shut down. Over the years I've chatted with friends who participate on forums and social media based around arborculture. A common talking point is about the arguing and rancor that they don't care for. I drill down and what they don't like....universally...is the OT chatter. NOT in all the rest of the forum. Makes me wonder if this is worth it.

Something I've noticed over the years is that the loudest voices with the highest word count participate much more on OT and almost none in the arborculture threads. That says a lot.
 
Shadowscape said:
So what do transgenders have to do with the other side of the Donald Trump is a loser coin? If you can explain that to me I am all ears. What does Hunter Biden have to do with Donald Trump is a loser coin? Still listening...
If you want to tell me why he is not a loser, then go ahead, but what is the point of dragging people who have nothing to do with whether Trump is a loser or not into the conversation other than to bring some agenda of yours into play that has no bearing on the issue at hand.
If I say Trump should be locked up for the rest of his life, and your CLIFF NOTES response is that gay people should not be allowed to get married because they can't produce children, can you sit there and tell me that is the other side of the coin as to whether Trump should be in jail? That is just being a jerk.
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Well obviously the whole topic is political based, just look at right leaning news vs left leaning news. If one doesn't believe Trump is a complete loser, or no worse then the current/past losers, then topics like the Bidens will come up in defense of him.

If one is on the conservative side, then transgender gets drug into it too...once again it is all politics because we all vote for the issues we believe in one way or the other. So if a politician is aligned with our beliefs, we vote for them. Some for Trump and or other Republicans, Some for Biden and other Democrats. To say it isn't all combined is almost childish.

I haven't seen outright trans hate on here, or hate against gays. Just because one doesn't think it is right, doesn't mean they are hating. Are there extremes (on both sides) quite definitely. But I don't lump you in with them, so don't lump me in with them either.
 
climbhightree said:
Well obviously the whole topic is political based, just look at right leaning news vs left leaning news. If one doesn't believe Trump is a complete loser, or no worse then the current/past losers, then topics like the Bidens will come up in defense of him.

If one is on the conservative side, then transgender gets drug into it too...once again it is all politics because we all vote for the issues we believe in one way or the other. So if a politician is aligned with our beliefs, we vote for them. Some for Trump and or other Republicans, Some for Biden and other Democrats. To say it isn't all combined is almost childish.

I haven't seen outright trans hate on here, or hate against gays. Just because one doesn't think it is right, doesn't mean they are hating. Are there extremes (on both sides) quite definitely. But I don't lump you in with them, so don't lump me in with them either.
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Excuse me if I gave the impression I was directing my comments directly at you. It was actually directed at other people who you seem to be defending. I was not lumping YOU in with anyone. My apologies for not being clearer in my statements.
 
Tom Dunlap said:
Politics has always been kept to Off-Topic. I would be curious to see a word count about what the stats are to compare OT with the rest of the forum. Take some time to look back in the archives, politics have always been here.

I've been getting clobbered about any sort of moderation for about 22 years...nothing new.


Other threads get shut down, yet this one keeps going because at least one admin completely agrees with it...so that makes it OK

Threads get closed but never deleted. I've closed threads when they've devolved into nothing more than circular bickering with no forward movement in the chatter.

Occasionally, like in this moment, I send a PRIVATE message asking a participant to consider HOW they are saying something not WHAT is being said.
The amount of tension that's generated by OT...and this thread...is the worst part of being the moderator. There are times when I think OT should just get shut down. Over the years I've chatted with friends who participate on forums and social media based around arborculture. A common talking point is about the arguing and rancor that they don't care for. I drill down and what they don't like....universally...is the OT chatter. NOT in all the rest of the forum. Makes me wonder if this is worth it.

Something I've noticed over the years is that the loudest voices with the highest word count participate much more on OT and almost none in the arborculture threads. That says a lot.
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I completely get what you are saying, it isn't a job I would want...moderating a OT forum. I agree political topics have always been on OT. I just feel, unfortunately, the world is move divided into 2 camps now. I always felt that Treebuzz put professionalism and the education of tree people higher than most other forums, but due to the greater divide in the world that is slipping in some. Yes there were disagreements, but it rarely went personal...but maybe I just didn't see it.

I just struggle when it appears (to me) that one side is given more leeway than the other side.
 
Tom Dunlap said:
Politics has always been kept to Off-Topic. I would be curious to see a word count about what the stats are to compare OT with the rest of the forum. Take some time to look back in the archives, politics have always been here.

I've been getting clobbered about any sort of moderation for about 22 years...nothing new.


Other threads get shut down, yet this one keeps going because at least one admin completely agrees with it...so that makes it OK

Threads get closed but never deleted. I've closed threads when they've devolved into nothing more than circular bickering with no forward movement in the chatter.

Occasionally, like in this moment, I send a PRIVATE message asking a participant to consider HOW they are saying something not WHAT is being said.
The amount of tension that's generated by OT...and this thread...is the worst part of being the moderator. There are times when I think OT should just get shut down. Over the years I've chatted with friends who participate on forums and social media based around arborculture. A common talking point is about the arguing and rancor that they don't care for. I drill down and what they don't like....universally...is the OT chatter. NOT in all the rest of the forum. Makes me wonder if this is worth it.

Something I've noticed over the years is that the loudest voices with the highest word count participate much more on OT and almost none in the arborculture threads. That says a lot.
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Well said, Tom.

Perhaps this thread is a good place for people who feel increasingly powerless to change or improve society to rail against the machine--and I have enjoyed doing so. I'm just not sure that anyone--after almost seven years of making the most heartfelt arguments--has changed or opened one mind on the other side of any issue. So it feels pretty fruitless in the end.

I went back to Page 1, hoping to find that the discussion perhaps included more open-mindedness at the start--somewhat, yes, but it didn't take long to devolve. I'm not sure that we Americans are any longer capable of hearing anything other than what we say ourselves. That's not democracy in action, it's insanity. Am I willing to listen to, or try to find logic in, defenses of trump or the hatred that he continues to instill in us? Absolutely not!

But hey, we all have the right to avoid this thread--as I have promised to do several times. No one forces us to read any of it. Perhaps I come back hoping to find that the divisive dialog has reached a higher plateau. But that is unlikely when we have presidential candidates (in title only, there's nothing presidential about them) who claim that their first orders of business will be to pardon the insurrectionists and break apart NATO, the DOJ, the FBI, and the Department of Education. And much of that societal collapse is due to Fu*%face Von Clownstick.
 
Speaking for my self, I have certainly formed some opinions about certain members on this forum. I have lost love ones who have had all sorts of hellacious acts done to them. They are DEAD murdered because they are trans, appeared to be trans, queer, or otherwise. So yes I will take great issue with anyone who infers this same kind of hate in the subtext of their words.

Bash Biden all you want, fuck the democrats and more so the hate mongering within the Republican Party.

I’d dislike to be in Toms position, this is his house (and Marks). But for fuck sakes can’t we just leave Race, Sexism, LGBTQIA and such out of it? There’s plenty else to argue about. Tone and implications fuels hate crimes, and validates the perpetrators.
 
What if we choose to change the direction of this thread--or start a new thread (better idea?)--where we discuss the daily machinations of the coming state and federal trials, each of which comprises crimes never tried before?

Are we interested in starting a new thread to discuss these ongoing, historic trials? If so, I'm happy to start that thread and link to it from here. How about a simple page in Off Topics called The Trials of 2023?

I know that some of you like to play chess; perhaps we can all try to treat our talks as a chess game, wherein we reason before acting. How many of us will participate in constructive communication as we explore America's uncertain future?
 
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Personally, I think it is going to be pretty straight forward. Donald is going to scream right up until the time he realizes he has no hope, then he is going to do a plea deal to stay out of prison. Of course, afterward he is going to be screaming again on how it was all a set up and he was somehow backed into a corner by the Democrats with political motives. Then he will appeal everything in order to keep his name on the front page of every news outlet. This will go on until the day he dies, unfortunately for us. He may even run again in 2028, if he is still alive, because it is all about Donald.
But I will participate.
 
Rich Sexual predator an Rapist and pedophile and all the extra mafia type craps he did with our Tax money and tried to gain more fortunes with using his position.
He is just another cult leader . Different kind of Charles Manson.
He does needs to go prison .
And Joe ? LoL Give me a break. ..
 
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