Fu*%face Von Clownstick

Bud, eeh? I've been trying to have a serious conversation with you, and I'm asking you direct questions which are not being answered. JD3000, Royce, Levi, and I are speaking from what our experiences are. One of the only things you have mentioned is that you assume illegals are driving wages down your wages, and you believe there are only 50 card caring clan members out there. These statements are weak at best.
I've lost my civility with you, so I am not going to continue with this conversation.
 
The klan isn't in the city's screwing shit up right now. And maybe on your island there aren't many illegal immigrants working. But here in the suburbs of Philly there is a ton. I watched illegal people get caught and come back with different names at asplundh, my company now allocates money to helping with immigration issues, I've been told by Spanish workers they come to America work for twenty years then go home rich. How is that fair?
 
The whole world can't come to America. I don't see how that's not understood. We re like urgent care for the earths problems
 
The history of the democratic party sad but true is that it is the party of the klan not one republican owned slaves and let us not forget that Sangers intention was to eliminate blacks in the inner city with planned parenthood(and she was backed by the klan). Revisionist history(after 1930) has somehow painted the republicans as rascist when they were the ones who abolished slavery(not 1 dem voted to do this) they also fought for women's right to vote and the black mans right to be armed(something the dem's eliminated after the civil war). The liberals have kept the minorities on the plantation but moved it to the inner city as evidenced by the urban decay displayed in most major cities in the U.S.( Detroit, Chicago. L.A. etc). Republican or conservatives being labeled rascist because we want to be cautious concerning the Syrian refuges(Trojan horse) because we are still at war with isis is total madness in my opinion as you don't have to look very far as to the repercussions of such an act(check out how good it is working in Europe). My ancestors built and died for this country and we came over in the early 1700's and it one of the greatest experiments that has ever occurred but on the ballot this year we had a national socialist(Bernie) same party as Hitler and Hillary(progressive another name for communist) and a billionaire that speaks his mind not of the political inside group. The people that have such disdain are welcome to go to another country that embraces the ideals of these other two no one will stand in their way.
 
Jem4417 said:
We re like urgent care for the earths problems
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I don't quite see it this way. America does a great deal of good, but we create a few problems too. Immigrants to America do a great deal of good, but they create a few problems as well. Some of the best "Americans" are illegals. Some of the worst Americans have never set foot abroad. You'll meet illegals with more of what makes America great in their little pinkies than entire frat houses, cooperate board rooms, college classrooms, county clubs, or Sunday socials.
 
pdj317 said:
The history of the democratic party sad but true is that it is the party of the klan not one republican owned slaves and let us not forget that Sangers intention was to eliminate blacks in the inner city with planned parenthood(and she was backed by the klan). Revisionist history(after 1930) has somehow painted the republicans as rascist when they were the ones who abolished slavery(not 1 dem voted to do this) they also fought for women's right to vote and the black mans right to be armed(something the dem's eliminated after the civil war). The liberals have kept the minorities on the plantation but moved it to the inner city as evidenced by the urban decay displayed in most major cities in the U.S.( Detroit, Chicago. L.A. etc). Republican or conservatives being labeled rascist because we want to be cautious concerning the Syrian refuges(Trojan horse) because we are still at war with isis is total madness in my opinion as you don't have to look very far as to the repercussions of such an act(check out how good it is working in Europe). My ancestors built and died for this country and we came over in the early 1700's and it one of the greatest experiments that has ever occurred but on the ballot this year we had a national socialist(Bernie) same party as Hitler and Hillary(progressive another name for communist) and a billionaire that speaks his mind not of the political inside group. The people that have such disdain are welcome to go to another country that embraces the ideals of these other two no one will stand in their way.
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Question of political terminology here: while the Nazi party did have the word socialist in it's German name, isnt the Nazi nationalism/facism on the FAR right side of the spectrum while their Soviet enemies' view of socialism/communism on the FAR left? If I recall my world history and government classes of long ago correctly, weren't these two political structures quite diametrically opposed to each other?

As far as American political history is concerned, can were really make direct comparisons of the current two party system to those of pre and post civil war Reconstruction?

Speaking of our Founding Fathers as saints or that they had any clue at the time of where this country could and should be 200 years in the future is preposterous. Their primary goal was to escape British Monarchy and create a fluid and changeable political system that could adapt to the times.
 
My previous post wasn"t intended to start another pissing contest but rather to keep the debate going in a perhaps more academic direction.

Im a tree geek and by no means a governance authority by any stetch of the imagination.
 
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pdj317 said:
The history of the democratic party sad but true is that it is the party of the klan not one republican owned slaves and let us not forget that Sangers intention was to eliminate blacks in the inner city with planned parenthood(and she was backed by the klan). Revisionist history(after 1930) has somehow painted the republicans as rascist when they were the ones who abolished slavery(not 1 dem voted to do this) they also fought for women's right to vote and the black mans right to be armed(something the dem's eliminated after the civil war). The liberals have kept the minorities on the plantation but moved it to the inner city as evidenced by the urban decay displayed in most major cities in the U.S.( Detroit, Chicago. L.A. etc). Republican or conservatives being labeled rascist because we want to be cautious concerning the Syrian refuges(Trojan horse) because we are still at war with isis is total madness in my opinion as you don't have to look very far as to the repercussions of such an act(check out how good it is working in Europe). My ancestors built and died for this country and we came over in the early 1700's and it one of the greatest experiments that has ever occurred but on the ballot this year we had a national socialist(Bernie) same party as Hitler and Hillary(progressive another name for communist) and a billionaire that speaks his mind not of the political inside group. The people that have such disdain are welcome to go to another country that embraces the ideals of these other two no one will stand in their way.
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This is a great contribute, if only because I think we can see where the source of your problem is. Its funny, a line of my ancestors came over in the 1700's too and fought in the Revolutionary War. A lot of people on this forum have that deep connection to this country too. Even if they don't have that history, they have a connection to the Idea of America and can become citizens in virtue of their affiliation to the ideals of the country, not just a racial group with a shared history. There's a long history in this country of robber barons and oligarchs, demagogues and the like. There's a long history in this country of rejection of this "leadership". The various phases of rights expansion throughout our history have been done to benefit the people: the bill of rights, the voting act, social security, civil rights of the 60's, environmental rights of the 70's, multiculturalism in the 80's, 90's., Health Care of the 2000's, etc. Why would we wish to roll back any of this? These are hard won achievements that our people paid for in blood, sweat, tears, and with their lives. You have to understand Bernie and Hillary as progressives in that long history of social achievement. In my reckoning it is Trump who is the anomaly here. He's the king we deposed, the oligarch, the glad hand, the incompetent petty dictatorial tyrant that is unworthy to lead a free people such as we are.
 
Yeah, I get it. That's a tongue in cheek definition. The actual definition is much longer and generally very flattering. Hell, if I didn't know better I'd want to be a liberal too based on Webster's! It sounds good.

But sounding good and doing good are very different things.
 
ward said:
This is a great contribute, if only because I think we can see where the source of your problem is. Its funny, a line of my ancestors came over in the 1700's too and fought in the Revolutionary War. A lot of people on this forum have that deep connection to this country too. Even if they don't have that history, they have a connection to the Idea of America and can become citizens in virtue of their affiliation to the ideals of the country, not just a racial group with a shared history. There's a long history in this country of robber barons and oligarchs, demagogues and the like. There's a long history in this country of rejection of this "leadership". The various phases of rights expansion throughout our history have been done to benefit the people: the bill of rights, the voting act, social security, civil rights of the 60's, environmental rights of the 70's, multiculturalism in the 80's, 90's., Health Care of the 2000's, etc. Why would we wish to roll back any of this? These are hard won achievements that our people paid for in blood, sweat, tears, and with their lives. You have to understand Bernie and Hillary as progressives in that long history of social achievement. In my reckoning it is Trump who is the anomaly here. He's the king we deposed, the oligarch, the glad hand, the incompetent petty dictatorial tyrant that is unworthy to lead a free people such as we are.
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Very nice @ward, Very much sum's up some of my feelings... Apparently my mothers bloodline were slave owners, and my fathers just showed up in Canada one day...
 
Yep, my Scottish mother's side got over here in the early 1700s but were always Yank northerners. Connecticut then eventually the Cleveland settlement. Hungarians and Sicilians didnt come over til much much later. Family history in America is fascinating stuff.
 
It's pretty clear that the lens of history is very much dependent on who is looking at it. I assume that many of us in this conversation are straight up white men. I am for the most part, 1/2 first gen, and 1/2 many generations going WAY back to the 13 states.

My son is mixed race, and the indigenous blood he has comes from just over the boarder in mexico. That side of MY family had a imaginary boarder line drawn through their ancestral homes. This is a major issue with native peoples on both sides of both boarders, which they can no longer freely cross. I have worked with No More Deaths, in Az, some of the stories you here from people crossing the boarder are very dynamic, and heartbreaking. Many of which are leaving everything they know, and their entire history to try to better their families.

Personally I do not subscribe to any political party, and I do fully understand my personal ideals in politics are very unrealistic and Utopian. So I try to vote and strive for what I believe is the best for the masses. I truly believe we need to sort out our own shit, before meddling in the rest of the world and shoving capitalistic democracy down their throats. Hell we are not even a full fledged democracy, I would assume we would have much more participation.
I also assume that the members of this conversation using terms such as "pussification" do not have daughters, and hold contempt for the women in their lives.

Sure some of the "liberals" are very whinny, and use that status as a sheild when they choose to do things such as make a "eco-villiage" development deep in Mexico where they (liberal whites) can live like royalty while living off the backs of others.
 
Jem4417 said:
The klan isn't in the city's screwing shit up right now. And maybe on your island there aren't many illegal immigrants working.
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I do beg to differ. I've had plenty of run ins with racist groups. A good friend of mine was killed by being shanked in the kidney in Portland. Many people are unaware of it but there are many members (gangs essentially) of these types even in the "Liberal" PNW. There was a FBI shoot out here on the island in the 90's with some of those types (racist Klan members).

Here on the island there is a fairly good sized population of illegal immigrants. However this isn't the only place in this country I've lived, and have many other experiences to call upon. Re illegal immigration, it's pretty simple, and yes it's a mixed bag. It does boil down to supply and demand..... Our industry is STARVED for good help, I just don't see how your personal wages are being driven down. That is a weak argument at best. There are plenty of white redneck hacks willing to work for peanuts too... How about you go after your own first...
 
its starved for good help because no one wants to do this work for such little money and when I say rioting in the city I mean the anti trump people who are burning the flag in "protest" of the election since the announcement he won was made
 
Jem4417 said:
its starved for good help because no one wants to do this work for such little money and when I say rioting in the city I mean the anti trump people who are burning the flag in "protest" of the election since the announcement he won was made
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Sounds like you need to go to a good riot to understand the difference of a protester burning a flag and a true riot. Are you aware there are different types of riots? Most of the ones I know of started due to excessive force from the police, then quickly went out of control.. Trust me if you went to one of these protests expecting a riot you would be very much underwhelmed.

Look into labor history in the past 100 years. There is a pattern which develops. Back then it the those pesky socialists, and anarcist which we can now thank for those little things such as a 40 hour work week, minimum wage, overtime etc... there is always a distraction the companies give us when we should be looking to point our fingers at them. Who benifits for keeping the wages down? Who benifits from highing illegal workers? Do they ask for full benifits? Does the company have to pay workmans comp?

Can't you see that the problem is somewhere else?

As a side note employee's are can be much more expensive than just the take home wages. Many are not clear that the employer has to match the withholdings from your check, workmans comp, benifits, training, and many other costs. Of course these costs are passed down to the consumer, which has to look at the bottom line. It keeps the hacks in business for sure!

Let's quit sugar coating our terminology here. Illegal immigrants is just a synonym for Mexicans/central Americans. We just don't use those terms because it might just sound ever so slightly racist (which it is).
 
evo said:
Sounds like you need to go to a good riot to understand the difference of a protester burning a flag and a true riot. Are you aware there are different types of riots? Most of the ones I know of started due to excessive force from the police, then quickly went out of control.. Trust me if you went to one of these protests expecting a riot you would be very much underwhelmed.

Look into labor history in the past 100 years. There is a pattern which develops. Back then it the those pesky socialists, and anarcist which we can now thank for those little things such as a 40 hour work week, minimum wage, overtime etc... there is always a distraction the companies give us when we should be looking to point our fingers at them. Who benifits for keeping the wages down? Who benifits from highing illegal workers? Do they ask for full benifits? Does the company have to pay workmans comp?

Can't you see that the problem is somewhere else?

As a side note employee's are can be much more expensive than just the take home wages. Many are not clear that the employer has to match the withholdings from your check, workmans comp, benifits, training, and many other costs. Of course these costs are passed down to the consumer, which has to look at the bottom line. It keeps the hacks in business for sure!

Let's quit sugar coating our terminology here. Illegal immigrants is just a synonym for Mexicans/central Americans. We just don't use those terms because it might just sound ever so slightly racist (which it is).
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Evo the first page of this thread has a video breaking down the riots. I assume you have a tv. Try Fox News for a half hour and watch. I'm watching them call the "protests" violent right now. And if your saying the companies who hire illegal people are to blame I totally agree.
 
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