Friction Hitches!

A

Adrian

Location
Berlin, Germany
Hello there.
I would like to find out if anybody can claim absolute satisfaction from climbing with either a Marschard or a Valdothain hitch. What I mean by absolute satisfaction is when the hitch allows rope through when needed, but also grips the climbing rope securely when weight is put on it - a perfect mix of safety and performance. I ´m wondering if this can even be achieved or whether you can only get this from a Lockjack. I climb in Berlin in Germany and I know that there are some differents between techniques and equipment between you guys in the states and us over here so perhaps you don´t use the Marschard or Valdothain hitches. I´d certainly be interested to here any of your comments though.
Cheers,
Ady
 
Ady,

In the Articles section of the page you'll find an article by Mahk Adams about hitches.

There are some climbers that I've met that have their hitches dressed out pretty loose for my liking. They have to set the hitch every time the ascend. I like to have my hitch grab automatically without having to baby it.

Take a look at the "Booty haul..." thread in Rant and Rave for another mechanical hitch tool. Similar to a LJ but it works on SRT too!
 
hi adrian....i can honestly say that im perfectly satisfied with my v.t set up..it has never once slipped and always advances freely. most of the time if i have 30ft of rope beneath me it will self tend too. i think i was lucky to hit a perfect climbing rope/cord combo right from the start. i personally think that anyone who doesnt like the v.t probably just hasnt hit that perfect combination that works for them.
the cord i use is quite soft. its always set nice and tight to my line, it doesnt need to be loosened to advance freely hence it never slips when putting my weight on it either. ive climbed with a lockjack and other similar set-ups but i cant see myself moving on from the v.t anytime soon.
 
Adrian,
I have a gut feeling that the performance of each hitch depends on the style of rope you use for the hitch. While others are completely satisfied with thier v.t. hitch, I have had trouble with it not setting when I try to put weight on it. I use Ultra Tech for my hitch and have switched to the distel because it feels more secure to me. I think that double braids like tenex have a better set when used with the v.t.
 
Re: What about for Fly?

I use the tenex 3/8 on the fly, in a VT config, it works well, I had it slip a little bit for the first time, but all and all, I like it.
 
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I think that double braids like tenex have a better set when used with the v.t.

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Somebody's got to say it......tenex is a hollow braid, no?

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Tenex is a hollow braid--yes.
 
I had problems with V.t. and M.t. not grabbing when sitting in it. You can either give the hitch a little tap or bend before you ease into it or try another hitch. I switched to the Knut awhile back and have not run into that problem eversince. Maybe when the hitch cord gets a little dirty but they all do that. Different styles of climbing and gear used with your ropes will affect the performance of your hitch. Each person weighs differently too which also affects performance. Using natural crotch, 2-ring cambium saver, pulley or whatever will affect the hitch. When I use RG(rope guide) I need 1 extra wrap.

BTW, Tenex is a SINGLE braid. Also, the dbl fisherman is referred to that by any person I know in any discipline. They all know what it is.

Later
 
Thanks a lot guys. That´s been some good advice.
Mostly it seems that there really are so many factors involved that it comes down a lot to whatever you feel easy with when choosing a friction hitch.
I actually feel aesiest right now on a 9mm distel, tied nice and tight, on a High Vee 13mm rope When it´s all nice and clean it self tends to some extent but it always grips which I really like. I think V.T is too soon for me right now. There´s always something nagging me in the back of my head when I use it (will it grip? will it GRIP? WILL IT GRIP?).
Some new questions - What is double braid, is it that which europeans call Kernmantel (ie a rope with a core generally of around 40% and an outer coating of about 60%)? Do you guys use anything other than that for climbing? We had a climbing rope over here called True Blue which I guess must be single braid, but I don´t think too many people use it. QAnybody got any views on whether single or double braid is better?
Cheers,
Ady
 
I just tried the Knut hitch (as shown in the articles section of this site) this weekend. I was using new KMIII Max and an Ultra Tech (30", spliced eye at each end, cord) which I've already used several times and a micro-pulley. I used SRT entirely, ascending with the aid of a Petzl pantin.

For quick grab and holding, it worked great, but I don’t think it self-tends as well as the Vt. It didn't move up the line as well during ascent as the Vt. Instead of being pushed up by the tails (as with the Vt), it was kind of dragged up by the carabiner, as I ascended. However, I do think that may have been because the legs were a too long and were being dragged up along side the hitch. It really wasn't a big deal though: only that I had to pull the hitch up if I wanted to sit back in the saddle. Otherwise, I would loose 5-6 inches as I sat back in my saddle.

I need to try the Knut hitch with a shorter cord. I have some Sta-Set that I’m going to try and see if I can get the length right to move up the line easily.

I really liked how the hitch worked once in the tree. It loosened easily with just a pull on the hitch. Let go and it grabbed. Period. I was really impressed.

Descending, it seemed like it took a little more effort, (like it wanted to grab harder than the Vt), but that may have been because I was using different climbing line (11mm KMIII Max as opposed to the Sampson ArborMaster 1/2").

Jim
 
Jim,

during me work on hitches and SRT I would try adding wraps to get a good grab. Sometimes the hitch would lock off too hard though even with extra wraps. That would eliminate the hitch from use. The last time I was using SRT with a hitch I was working through the Knut variations. Tie with short tails.
 
Tom, thanks. I'll try an extra wrap, which should shorten it about right, and see what happens. I really like the Knut hitch for up in the tree. If I can't get the Knut to advance properly, I may try ascending with the Vt and then switch over to the Knut once up there.

Jim
 
over the weekend i also tried the knut. i used sta set. i tried it along with vt, distel, swabish and a few others i think...aboe all i loved the knut. i had to make shorter tails, but when i got them right it moved up as good as any with the micro pulley (for me at least) and heald right there. i loved how tight it was, small and close to me. i felt safe with it, which is most important to me.
sta set is awesome.
 
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above all i loved the knut. i had to make shorter tails, but when i got them right it moved up as good as any

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I was hoping that would be the case. The Knut seems to be a great hitch. Like you, I prefer to have the hitch close also... allows me to get closer to my tie-in point (if I need to) without the hitch going around and binding on the limb.

I'm going to try and use the Knut again today with Sta-Set also. What was the length of your cord?

edit:
Made the Knut out of Sta-Set. Going to try in a bit.

Mark, I hope you don't mind, but the attached picture is from your 'An Overview of Climbing Hitches' in the articles section. I couldn't find any another picture to use.

Three questions:
1.) In a fall situation (say 25-30 feet), it seems that when the hitch grabs, the stress on the bight caused by the left hand leg in the picture would be very high, which could cause the hitch to sever at the bight. It that bight a serious weak point in this hitch?

2.) In general (or in the same situation as in #1), wouldn't the right leg, that is trapped by the bight, create a hot spot, potentially increasing the risk of glazing?

3.) Because of #2 above, does this hitch, in general, generate more heat during descent than a Vt?

Thanks,
Jim
 

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there have been a few drop tests done on arbo friction hitches. Adding this bit of knowledge to what other rope disciplines have found over the years the conclusion is that the friction hitch will slip but not break the cord. There may be several slip-grab cycles before the climber stops falling. Also, the heat of slipping is what causes the cord to fail.

In some test done in Australia on arbo rope they found that prusiks were more likely to slip to failure than the rest of the hitches. The rest that were tested did a slip/grab. The study is buried on a sub drive but I can't remember the name of the file.

I guess I'll ask my first question. How does an arbo put themselves in the situation where they would be exposed to a 25' fall?
 
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