Friction Hitches!

Tom, sorry if I was confusing. The questions were an effort to get some information with which to compare to the information in the attached report about ropes, hitches, etc.

The questions also were about the general construction of the Knut: 1.) the pressure that the left leg (in the picture) would exert on the bight in any type of a weighted scenario and 2.) that the right leg, being enclosed as it is, would create a hot spot which could cause glazing (a similar situation to the Blakes's hitch).

I used the Knut hitch this past weekend and liked it a lot. It did seem to possibly generate some additional heat in comparison to the Vt that I've used a few times recently. That may have only been in my mind, but I wanted to find out what others' experiences have been to see if there was any cause for concern.

Thanks,
Jim
 

Attachments

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single braid = hollow braid

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That may be true for some 12 strand single braids, but what about a sixteen strand climbing line? That is single braid, but it has a (parallel) core. Now, not even all of the 12 strands are hollow braid. NER has a 12 strand with a core (they call it a 'thirteenth strand').
 
Jim;

You said of the Knut:

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It didn't move up the line as well during ascent as the Vt. Instead of being pushed up by the tails (as with the Vt), it was kind of dragged up by the carabiner, as I ascended. However, I do think that may have been because the legs were a too long and were being dragged up along side the hitch.

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Are you using any kind of slack tender (micro-pulley, swivel snap) attached to the carabiner? That, rather than the legs of the hitch, should advance the knot, whether its a Knut or a Vt.

Mahk
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
single braid = hollow braid

[/ QUOTE ]

That may be true for some 12 strand single braids, but what about a sixteen strand climbing line? That is single braid, but it has a (parallel) core. Now, not even all of the 12 strands are hollow braid. NER has a 12 strand with a core (they call it a 'thirteenth strand').

[/ QUOTE ]

Simple- I wouldn't refer to arbo climbing line as single braid. That's a 16 strand with a parallel strand core (except the one manufacturer that uses a braided core).

Some 12 strands, like arborplex, could hardly be called hollow braid because they just aren't hollow!

love
nick
 
Blake's Hitch takes 2 heaviest loaded coils and traps/ presses tail with that force into sliding rope (host line). i think that causes the higher glazing. i don't think that pattern of construction is present in the other hitches. Always check your gear, chords are easy and cheap enough to carry extra; so even can be replaced at last moment or even changed out after someone comes to their senses that they should have done that before starting to climb that morning.
 
Mahk, I was using a micro-pulley with the Knut hitch. All was attached to my saddle with a carabiner. The cord was Ultra Tech 8mm cord; the climbing line was new 11mm KMIII Max. Previously, I was using new Samson ArborMaster with the Vt.

Yesterday I used some 5/16" Sta-Set to make a cord for the Knut hitch to try out. It seems more pliable than the Ultra Tech, maybe because it's thinner. It made me wonder if maybe the Utlra Tech might just have been too grabby (because of its stiffness, at least in comparison to the Sta-Set) on the KMIII Max.

JasonCraig, what diameter Sta-Set were you using? Maybe I need a different diameter for my 11mm climbing line.

TreeSpyder, thanks. What happened was that I noticed that my line seemed to get a little warm as I was descending (and I wasn't descending fast). Since I had used neither the KMIII Max nor the Knut hitch before, I wondered if maybe the Knut, due to its construction, would generate more heat than the Vt, or maybe it was the line-cord-hitch combination, (or maybe it was all just in my mind /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif ).

I still would like some feedback as to whether the bight would take an inordinate amount of stress in a fall and sudden arrest situation.

Thanks everyone,
Jim
 
Ummmm total heat, from total friction would be set to total speed/load and amount of heat evacuation between friction points or if concentrated heat build up in one uninterupted length (Pulley/ friction saver support without 'dragging' feet); wouldn't change total factor without altering that; just were supporting friction is borne. The heat must be returned to the atmosphere to balance formulae of energy never being created or destroyed, just changing from one form to another. Just as the evil energy did in Denzel Washington's movie "Fallen" (that i find so appropriately named for this imagery i often use it in!). Friction is a stopping/ baking force / tool; but not an energy. Heat is the energy that must be released for stopping force; as the energy trade/ passing off to another form for giving up posityion that it took energy to get to(descending). More frictional support will take more of friction load off hitch; pulley or friction saver will make hitch carry ~all of frictional support required in total system. Causing friction/ bends in line under hitch with feets would be another option of non-hitch friction. Also, allows heat dissipation between friction points, rather than all friction in hitch; with no 'vents' / breaks in build up of heat. (In my mental comix)

Whole hitch grabbing host line like a sock evenly will spread out heat in hitch most i think, rather than one trapped point pressed into host glazing section on that intensely pinched in positon more than any other (Blake's). The Knut is fairly equivalent to the other non-VT (Schwab, TK, Distel, Icicle etc.that precede coil cap of turns with some type of single half hitch choke/dent, bearing weight on both legs of hitch) in that respect i think. The VT/MT having a total 'sock' down the length of the host, without a bottom pinch/dent of half hitch class finishes. So i would think that VT/MT had evener friction spread as a sock without previous choke/bend friction concentration (?) point, and braids could give plenty of 'venting' by design.

Or, that is the way i try to imagine it/ talk to it; as i work/play.
 
TreeSpyder, EXCELLENT post. Thank you. Very logical. That was what I was thinking, but I'm a rookie. What do I know. In reality, not much... but learning (I hope /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif !). What I noticed and, it seems some others also (and again, this may be a newbie thing), is that the Vt has to monitored carefully so that the hitch indeed grabs when you want it to/hope it will. I did notice heat with the Knut that I didn't notice with the Vt. However, in all fairness, I need to try the Vt with the KMIII Max, so that I have a better comparisom of both hitches. That's what has changed over my previous setup (1/2" Sampsom ArborMaster vs 11MM KMIII Max). I do like the fact that the Vt spreads the friction along the whole hitch, including the braids. I never though of using my feet (reverse footlocking!?!) to create some additional friction. I like that.

Again, thanks, a great help in my gaining some understanding.
Jim
 
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