Finishing a back cut with a hand saw?

H

highlife

I am curious as to how many production arborist finish their back cuts with a hand saw during removals or pruning of large limbs. What are the pro's and con's
 
I do this to control my hinge wood perfectly. You have to be a very confident saw man, but I strive to have every piece come off under complete control. Unless absolutely necessary, I have my chainsaw off and back on my belt before any piece moves, this has taken some practice, but in my opinion, the safest way to operate. I am taking about large pieces being rigged here of course, not brushing out a tree.

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I do it if I foresee the necessity to move quickly as the piece hinges and breaks. It's a lot easier to to scoot with your chainsaw stowed. Also as Nish said, if it's tight and there's a chance to cut a rope. Mine rarely gets used it on bigger stuff.
 
The reason that I ask, Is that I have a friend coming to work for me that is coming from a company that finishes their back cuts with a hand saw most of the time. My understanding is that it is safer to have your chainsaw on your hip and not running while pieces of wood are hinging over with the possibility of getting rocked by improper load and rigging. I'm not sure it is a necessary precaution. I always feather my hinge at the end of my back cut, engage my chain break before it hinges over, sometimes I can get it to my hip.
Is this what is being taught or becoming a standard in the industry. Is it really a matter of safety? .
I feel it would add to fatigue having to constantly finish my cuts with a handsaw.
I could cut myself just as easily with a 14 inch silk with 1/4 inch teeth if I am rocked by pieces being rigged.
What if I need to cut my metal core flip lanyard due to structrual failure, or the need to cut the rope is groundie is about to drag the rope into the
chipper.
Please persuade my otherwise.
 
If you use a bore cut with your chainsaw to remove the majority of the wood in your back cut, you can leave a small strap of holding wood at the far back of the piece, which can then be easily removed with a few strokes of a handsaw....or even a pole saw.

Advantages to this are that you can have nearly all the back material removed, with the piece still stable. This can allow you to briefly turn your attention away from your hands and the piece, to look over your drop zone one last time to make sure everything is clear, before you set the piece into motion. It can also allow you time to move to a safer position before releasing the piece.

The technique just gives you more time to do any last minute housekeeping before you turn things over to gravity.
 
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If your worried about cutting your flip line to save yourself from impending danger you should switch to rope. Hand or gas powered saws are only cutting through the cover of a wire core. In the event of a saw injury I'd prefer a hand saw cut to a chain cut. Chain cuts in flesh are UGLY.
Be safe.
 
Well, even a Silky... as sharp as those bastards are... isn't nearly as lethal as a running chainsaw. You can get very good control with a chainsaw, especially the little tophandles like the 150, but the control you get with a handsaw is even better.

Still, you might be looking at it all wrong. In those weird instances when Murphy's Law kicks in, and the piece grabs the saw and tries very hard to break it while it is yanking it out of your hand... well, even a Silky is dirt cheap compared to a good tophandle saw. So, there's a financial incentive there, too. Granted, you can go a very long time without that kind of bad mojo going down, but I've actually made some cuts where I thought it could happen, and finished with the Silky. I really hate to break stuff that's mine.
 
96coal449 said:
If your worried about cutting your flip line to save yourself from impending danger you should switch to rope. Hand or gas powered saws are only cutting through the cover of a wire core. In the event of a saw injury I'd prefer a hand saw cut to a chain cut. Chain cuts in flesh are UGLY.
Be safe.
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I respectfully beg to differ. A chainsaw will cut entirely through a steel core flipline like a hot knife through butter.
 
cerviarborist said:
I respectfully beg to differ. A chainsaw will cut entirely through a steel core flipline like a hot knife through butter.
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I've cut through nails and stuff before but dang! .... I thought a wire core would put up more fight than that.
I was imagining it would take more work than that.
 
Depends on the situation but yes I regularly use a handsaw in removals. If the work positioning is sketchy or its just small diameter wood. The straight blade silky is awesome for getting pieces to hinge just perfectly.
All that being said, there are plenty of situations that it is unsafe to not uses a chainsaw. I.e. heavy leaners or species prone to splitting. Plus it just wears out your arms sometimes.
 
I rarely use a hand saw to finish a back cut. If the situation warrants I will do it. Usually if I am pulling a branch with one hand while finishing the cut with the other.
Normally I kick the chain brake as the piece starts to hinge. I feel more likely to cut myself with a handsaw than a chainsaw in a rigging situation. Two hands on the chainsaw and one hand on the hand saw.

I have seen instructional videos where they finish the cut with a handsaw but it is just not practical or necessary in the real world to do that on every cut.
 
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I can't imagine having to do that on every cut. It's a great technique when you need it, kind of thing. I'm slow enough without having to change tools on every cut.
Was this an actual company policy kind of thing, or did these guys just prefer doing it that way? I'm good with the latter case, but dictating it for every cut seems like it would create more hazards than it solved. It's a lot easier to cut yourself accidentally with a handsaw than a chainsaw. The injuries aren't as severe, but it just seems to me that a whole lot of little cuts would bleed you out as good as one big one.

I can even see a policy for new climbers, to do this for a short probationary period until their work habits in the tree can be evaluated. It would force them to slow down a bit and think about what they're doing, and you can tell a lot about a person's temperament if they fly off the handle and bitch constantly about having to do something for a lousy two weeks. Might weed out the hotheads, that way.

I always thought that the chainsaw OEMs should make a rubber bar with a rubber chain on it. Give the 'tardsticks on a crew something to practice with, you know?
 
I believe that this is meant for a bore cut method and I certainly don't see it being used in every cut. It's only a few strokes to trip the hinge. Certain situations yes. What do I know? I'm a lazy fook
 
I do it often. It's for showboating, positioning, convenience, or just preparing to get kicked by a trunk.

Especially tops, but really everything is great to hear crack as it gives. I cut a lot of handsaw notches as well. It is always on me in the tree, and I almost always either send for the saw at the top or tie it on to make my foot ascender tend.

The showboating is almost always when felling for spectators. Set up your notch, make a bore cut, and tidy everything up. Then shout for your "tree felling saw" and low man runs a sugowaza out to you. Quick nick of the strap and over she goes.
Tree guys will think you're being a dick, but people who don't know any better assume it's magic.
 
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