Estimating Large Jobs! Whats your trick?

ROYCE said:
...Also I am trying to build my tool box of equipment. Trying to figure out what would make this job faster? What can I purchase that will speed this up? I believe I have enough equipment right now to get it done very competitively, but speeding it up is where I could make more of a profit.
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A mid to large compact wheel loader like the Gehl AL340/540 or one of the Giant X-tra machines since you don't need lift height with a grapple truck. Articulated loaders make great forwarders compared to a mini skid in terms of payload, speed, and turf damage.

I'm planning for a 332 X-tra behind my grapple truck.
 
"Also I am trying to build my tool box of equipment. Trying to figure out what would make this job faster? What can I purchase that will speed this up? I believe I have enough equipment right now to get it done very competitively, but speeding it up is where I could make more of a profit."

You are not going to make more (or any) profit from this job if you buy equipment. Purchasing anything beyond hand tools should be looked upon as equipment for the long term and you then need to sell it over and over to customers.

You have said you want to be the go to tree guy, for all tree issues, for your customers. I think equipment purchase should be looked at in terms of where you want your company to go and what will make the most money. A 100K on a small excavator etc. is a lot different that recovering the money from a 2K airspade.

So do you want to be doing land clearing, tree removals, pruning, or PHC? They are all different jobs with positives and negatives associated with them.
 
mrtree said:
"Also I am trying to build my tool box of equipment. Trying to figure out what would make this job faster? What can I purchase that will speed this up? I believe I have enough equipment right now to get it done very competitively, but speeding it up is where I could make more of a profit."

You are not going to make more (or any) profit from this job if you buy equipment. Purchasing anything beyond hand tools should be looked upon as equipment for the long term and you then need to sell it over and over to customers.

You have said you want to be the go to tree guy, for all tree issues, for your customers. I think equipment purchase should be looked at in terms of where you want your company to go and what will make the most money. A 100K on a small excavator etc. is a lot different that recovering the money from a 2K airspade.

So do you want to be doing land clearing, tree removals, pruning, or PHC? They are all different jobs with positives and negatives associated with them.
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I agree Mr. Tree, but one thing is missing. And that is what the market will bear. Having knowledge of the market and what an equipment purchase can do for your business is very important. The market that Royce is in is a very cut throat market where half the guys know what they are doing, but don't (if you know what I mean). If you want to survive in that cold part of this country you have to diversify your business. Those that do, do very well for themselves... Even the ones that are clueless. The key is knowing when it is time to grow, and when to hold off, what can that piece of equipment do for me... Not just one job, what is next... Is it going to sit? Is it going to move on to the next job? You always need to look beyond the estimate you are working on.

You are absolutely right, its much easier to recoup the small cost on a failed piece of equipment, then that mini ex purchased for one job.

Royce - the way you describe the job, it seams like a tractor/winch combo (or something like that) would be more helpful than a second mini skid (might almost say leave the mini at home). You may even consider hiring one in (I have a contact if you need). That way you don't have the cost of owing the equipment, but you get to see how it works on that type of job. A little risk, but not 30k if risk!
 
I had a large job 2 yrs ago 180 trees 50 of them probably 36" spruces
Rent a bobcat 650 class tracked machine for 2-3 days with a grapple to move the wood and use the mini for the tops.
The tracked Bobcats capacity is ridiculous and speed incredible
You will take days off the job
 
mrtree said:
"Also I am trying to build my tool box of equipment. Trying to figure out what would make this job faster? What can I purchase that will speed this up? I believe I have enough equipment right now to get it done very competitively, but speeding it up is where I could make more of a profit."

You are not going to make more (or any) profit from this job if you buy equipment. Purchasing anything beyond hand tools should be looked upon as equipment for the long term and you then need to sell it over and over to customers.

You have said you want to be the go to tree guy, for all tree issues, for your customers. I think equipment purchase should be looked at in terms of where you want your company to go and what will make the most money. A 100K on a small excavator etc. is a lot different that recovering the money from a 2K airspade.

So do you want to be doing land clearing, tree removals, pruning, or PHC? They are all different jobs with positives and negatives associated with them.
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Your absolutely right about profit. However, I am thinking long term. I have only been in business for two years. If I purchase a piece of equipment that can help me with this job, it will also be useful in future jobs. I purchased my log truck because I saw a need for it right now, but also knew I had some big jobs in the future months that it could be used on.
I think a lot has to do with what your calls are. I get calls for removals everyday. I get large corporation, companies, and residents that call for removals. I would love to push the PHC and pruning, and I do, it's just right now I am swamped with removal projects. When you get buried in removal jobs that are profitable you don't look at purchasing an air-spade and try to sell that work. You buy removal equipment, and bang out tree removals, and sell as much PHC and pruning along the way.
@mrtree. I really like your thinking. So please keep giving me your opinion. I really value it. Even if it seams like I do the opposite. It can be hard to explain my situation over a key board.
 
flyingsquirrel25 said:
I agree Mr. Tree, but one thing is missing. And that is what the market will bear. Having knowledge of the market and what an equipment purchase can do for your business is very important. The market that Royce is in is a very cut throat market where half the guys know what they are doing, but don't (if you know what I mean). If you want to survive in that cold part of this country you have to diversify your business. Those that do, do very well for themselves... Even the ones that are clueless. The key is knowing when it is time to grow, and when to hold off, what can that piece of equipment do for me... Not just one job, what is next... Is it going to sit? Is it going to move on to the next job? You always need to look beyond the estimate you are working on.

You are absolutely right, its much easier to recoup the small cost on a failed piece of equipment, then that mini ex purchased for one job.

Royce - the way you describe the job, it seams like a tractor/winch combo (or something like that) would be more helpful than a second mini skid (might almost say leave the mini at home). You may even consider hiring one in (I have a contact if you need). That way you don't have the cost of owing the equipment, but you get to see how it works on that type of job. A little risk, but not 30k if risk!
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You summed it up nicely. You know this market. It can be difficult. I am looking into a tractor as we speak with a winch on the back. In the future I can add a grapple to the front. Wont get used everyday but will be very handy in the future. I am actually going to pull the trigger on one this week. I can use it for the next 2 weeks and the job will pay for a third of the tractor.
 
southsoundtree said:
How far from felling layout to staging area for log trucks?
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Felling area for this job will be about 120-160 feet from the log truck and the chipper. The chipper will keep getting moved up as we progress.
This is how I am going to lay the job out. Fell trees, grab them with the tractor and skid them to the staging area. Cut tops off and grab those with the dingo and feed them into the chipper, log truck will grab logs and load them. Once truck is loaded, we will stack logs in a pile. I want the tractor to just drop everything and then head back out for another hitch. I will pressure the crew at the staging area to have the hitch cleared before the next one arrives.
 
You cannot plan long term if you are caught up in the moment. There is no doubt that a 10k job is nice in winter but gearing up for this job has impacts for your future.

If you walk around swinging a chainsaw that is what customers will see and remember, not the unseen skills.
 
mrtree said:
You cannot plan long term if you are caught up in the moment. There is no doubt that a 10k job is nice in winter but gearing up for this job has impacts for your future.

If you walk around swinging a chainsaw that is what customers will see and remember, not the unseen skills.
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Thats when you need to take every opportunity to educate the public on other services. I'm on a local conservation commission, write articles for a local new paper about proper tree care, Conduct talks with HOA of large condo complexes of the importance of maintaing their trees (has been great for us), and am involved with plaiting trees for local school and parks. There are a lot of other aspects to our business. I advertise that we are certified arborist.
 
You out working with well lettered trucks is your best advertisement and what people see is what people want. Education is a long hard road and does not pay the same dividends per unit of effort.
 
jim454 said:
I'll tell ya what I do, Royce.
I bring in another company with big equipment and we tag team. Also, two heads are better than one when it comes to a bid.
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I would do that, but it's hard to find companies around here that you can work with. Educated, hardworking, adhering to industry standards and not looking to stab me in the back the moment I turn around is hard to find. I have met a really good guy who runs a pretty good operation that is close to me. I am working at that relationship. Might be great in the future!
 
Well, we got the job. We will be doing it in the spring. It has already opened the door to a few more jobs. So, we went to an auction and purchased this Kubota tractor. It's going in tomorrow to get a 7700# winch on the back. We are currently on a two and a half week job removing a bunch of white pines where the Kubota will really help speed the process up. With the current job we're doing, plus the future jobs, we felt the tractor was a good fit for us.
 

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I worked for 1 tree co., heavy on the removal side, that had 2 John Deeres about that size. Put any sort of grapple on the front and they ROCK for moving wood and logs. Surprisingly turf friendly. We had a Root Grapple (the cross-wise style, not the dangle type like a BMG) and moved pretty big wood into dumpsters with it all day. Very effective. Also had a 3 point receiver hitch on the rear, for staging the chipper, pulling trees over or skidding trees. Swap the grapple to a bucket or hydraulic angling snowplow in the winter.
I think you'll be quite happy with it Jonathan!
 
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Jeff said:
I worked for 1 tree co., heavy on the removal side, that had 2 John Deeres about that size. Put any sort of grapple on the front and they ROCK for moving wood and logs. Surprisingly turf friendly. We had a Root Grapple (the cross-wise style, not the dangle type like a BMG) and moved pretty big wood into dumpsters with it all day. Very effective. Also had a 3 point receiver hitch on the rear, for staging the chipper, pulling trees over or skidding trees. Swap to a bucket or hydraulic angling snowplow in the winter.
I think you'll be quite happy with it Jonathan!
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Thanks Jeff! I am very excited to get it working. I also am looking into the grapple for the front end. I will have to get the hydraulic plumbed, but I think it will be great to have a grapple like you describe. There are certain jobs where that is a better option than the BMG stele grapple.
 
Royce look into WR Long for the horizontal grapple, lightest I found yet built very strong. Perfect match for a small tractor. And very affordable compared to most. If some of this snow goes away I can send you a few pictures of one!!!
 
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flyingsquirrel25 said:
Royce look into WR Long for the horizontal grapple, lightest I found yet built very strong. Perfect match for a small tractor. And very affordable compared to most. If some of this snow goes away I can send you a few pictures of one!!!
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Thanks, I will look them up. I see a ton of grapple for sale online, however they all look pretty cheap. I will look into the WR Long. Yeah, get some of that snow moved, and then send me a picture:)
 
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