Drop starting

First, let's be clear and define drop starting as holding on to the starter cord with the right hand and dropping or pushing the saw away from the body holding it with the left on either the front or rear handle.

This is opposed to holding the saw stationary with the left hand on the front or top handle and pulling the starter cord out.

The problem with drop staring even with the chainbrake on is really three phase. First phase is Wear and gear on the saw.
Modern chainsaws have anti-vibration suspensions. The sudden stop at the end of the drop start flexes these. Often causing them to bottom out. Much like hitting a pot hole every chance you get when running down the road in your truck. The first one might not do damage, not even the second one. However, it adds up over time.

A malfunction of the anti-vibe sytem mat then stress the air intake system of the saw, as well as the fuel lines that have to cross this barrier from handle to engine block.
You the operator also loose the benefits of less vibration and begin a slow return to the days of 'ol white knuckling the saw. I am sure a few on here can remember the feeling of having to pry up your hands off the handles after a long cut/day!

The last problem with a drop start, from a saw mechanical standpoint, is that it rarely allows for the pull cord to run straight out of the saw as designed. Instead it forces the pull cord to abrade against the exit hole of the recoil cover. Eventually the cord breaks, is shortened and this exacerbates the above saw and operator problems.


Second phase is the motion of throwing a weight down and into your arm and shoulder. Again the adverse results are not immediately apparent, but over time the hand, wrist, elbow, shoulder take a slow beating.
I like many in my youth thought I could withstand it. For years I did. However, glacial like, the abuse crept up.
Like many of the advanced climbing and ascent solutions now available, I wish I would have knew them when. The down grading of the saw mechanically as describe above becomes a vicious spiral bad for you and the saw.,

Lastly, it becomes a matter of control. The chainbreak should always be on when starting. The hand should be well clear of the throttle. However, we are all aware that starting at high idle, or a saw malfunction could cause the chain to begin to turn at at start up.
Applying the chain break is an excellent way to mitigate the threat. However, we put ourselves in a situation where we are relying on one mechanical device to belay another possible mechanical problem. Great in an emergency or moment of forgetfulness I agree.
Much like should I have to remove sawdust from near the dogs, or adjust the chain tension, I would take the additional precaution of shutting the saw down and not entirely trust my memory or the mechanism of the chain break itself. Just as if I were to crawl under my touch to check some thing, I would chock it as well as apply the parking brake. We can make it a longer list if we want.

While I am against laws and legislation that protects me from myself, I am in full support of simple acts or process that help keep me safe, sometimes despite myself, even when I have the best intentions! Avoiding drop starts is one such practice.
If you only start a saw a few times a year, then your chances of using any method without physical or mechanical problems are good. However, this was never an option for me or many or you.

In the real world, we all know that a leg-lock or ground start is not always possible. However, with some thought and planing a hybrid method exists to protect the sawyer and the saw. I have a feeling many of us have found that method.

Tony
 
[ QUOTE ]
I infer that Tony is suggesting that it would be a bad idea to drop start while holding the throttle handle.
I certainly agree. I’m sure some people do that, although I’ve not seen

[/ QUOTE ]really? How do most people start a top handle? Never started a top handle any other way.


That's also how I start a flooded rear handled saw. When some one else floods one. One hand on throttle wide open and not drop but throw that saw a bunch all manic!
Amazing how many "tree guys" I've worked with have such a difficult time starting saws. I love watching someone struggle and give up,"it doesn't work" ...."let me see it"

As for starting a saw on the ground... Yea of course when I was 14 and my grandfather was showing me how to be safe....oh and now we have a 3120 husky soooo much nicer on my back to ground start it with the decompression button pushed! Does that mean I'm getting old if I whine about my back?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I infer that Tony is suggesting that it would be a bad idea to drop start while holding the throttle handle.
I certainly agree. I’m sure some people do that, although I’ve not seen

[/ QUOTE ]really? How do most people start a top handle? Never started a top handle any other way.


[/ QUOTE ]

When starting, I hold the handle bar portion, not the throtle portion on my 020T.
 
I don't agree that drop starting damages a saw. It doesn't, or at least it doesn't damage it any more than putting it to wood does.
 
I find drop starting is far easier on my back, then bending over like a hunchback with my foot through the rear handle. Find using a leg lock is also more awkward than worthwhile as well. Haven't personally experienced the wear on the anti-vibe system, or starter cord chafing, or other maladies cited by Tony above, so I will view them as a theoretical possibility.
 
I find it easier, Tom.
You are using the momentum of both arms moving in opposite directions to start the saw, instead of only one arm.
In archery, when you draw an arrow back, do you hold one arm stationary, or move them apart from each other?
 
Everyone on this thread knows a lot more about saws than I will ever know.
But perhaps there are some fine point definitions.

When I drop start, I don’t throw it away from me. I drop it straight down. At the same time, I pull up on the starter cord. e.g. Stihl 044

Ergonomically, this seems to be a lot less stress on my starter arm (& back).
i.e. the “gravity assisted start” splits the stress between both arms.
The cord slows the drop, and my arms are short enough to never reach the end of the cord during the pull.

The angle of arms, elbows & wrists all seem to be the same as a “static saw body” start.

Just me.
 
"In archery, when you draw an arrow back, do you hold one arm stationary, or move them apart from each other? "

You hold one arm stationary and draw back using the back muscles.
 
[ QUOTE ]

"In archery, when you draw an arrow back, do you hold one arm stationary, or move them apart from each other? "

You hold one arm stationary and draw back using the back muscles.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dammit Orosboros, I'm thinking mebbe you are a better archer than me!
biggrin.gif
 
I am very curious if anyone has any sources for their claims. I highly doubt drop starting has any effect on the life of a saw. It may shorten the starter the rope life but not enough to worry about.
I do wonder about the wear and tear on the body. I have always felt that drop starting was easier on my body because I am using both my arms and using them in a more natural motion then yanking twice the distance with one arm.
 
Rotator cuff/cup injuries is what I always heard were the worst ergonomic injuries incurred with drop starting. I can tell you also from personal experience that if a starter cord locks up it can cause to bar tip to swipe your foot. I typically hold more towards the corner of the front handle now just in case it happens again. (Bar side of handle to turn saw a bit crooked). Interesting to slowly read the fine print on drop starting in z133.
 
Always try to let the recoil rope feed back into the saw slowly no matter how you start it! Just letting it fly is the norm but it's hard on the saw. It's also a good idea to pull on the starter rope until you feel good compression, let it rewind, then give 'er a yank!

I don't want to sound like a wuss, but when starting a big saw like a 3120 or my 090, I hold the saw on the ground, foot in handle and try to find someone else to do the pulling. Advising them of course to let it recoil slowly.

Oh yeah, and use the compression release if it's got one.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

"In archery, when you draw an arrow back, do you hold one arm stationary, or move them apart from each other? "

You hold one arm stationary and draw back using the back muscles.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dammit Orosboros, I'm thinking mebbe you are a better archer than me!
biggrin.gif


[/ QUOTE ]


I had a nice Bowtech stolen a few years back and I haven't replaced it. I think of getting back into it now and then but.....
 
Like someone said earlier, great way to start a flooded or stubborn saw.
Try it the normal way for a half dozen times, then drop start it, that'll learn it!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Like someone said earlier, great way to start a flooded or stubborn saw.
Try it the normal way for a half dozen times, then drop start it, that'll learn it!

[/ QUOTE ]

Easier to simply set the power switch to off, pull the cord a couple five times then slip the power switch back to on, no choke.

Tony
 
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I don't agree that drop starting damages a saw. It doesn't, or at least it doesn't damage it any more than putting it to wood does.



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The problem is often thus, constant drop starting is indicative of other bad habits, yanking on the saw when it pinches, pinching the saw in the first place, etc. These are the quicker way to saw demise, but often go hand in hand.

Let's think of rough starting as a gateway drug!
grin.gif


I have fixed plenty tweaked suspension springs, replaced air boots and anti vibe grommets. Some due to general use, some too new to be because of that.

Tony
 
[ QUOTE ]
I am very curious if anyone has any sources for their claims. I highly doubt drop starting has any effect on the life of a saw. It may shorten the starter the rope life but not enough to worry about.
I do wonder about the wear and tear on the body. I have always felt that drop starting was easier on my body because I am using both my arms and using them in a more natural motion then yanking twice the distance with one arm.

[/ QUOTE ]

Willy, I gotta see how you start a saw!
grin.gif
just kidding!
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With the exception of large saws, 80cc and over, it should start well enough not to need all the momentum you describe. I think starting large saws on the ground is the way to go.

I also realize not all saws perform top notch all the time. Having said that if starting is such a constant problem, then perhaps there is a maintenance/ you-need-to-up-grade issue!
smile.gif


Let me make a few inquiries. On saw damage. And let me be clear in case I was not in the earlier post. I agree that rough starting will not kill a saw, just one more tweak to the system it does not need. Damn things are expensive! I want them to last as long as possible.

I think the biggest problem is the wear and tear on me! Not to mention the control issue, should something malfunction.

Tony
 

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