Documenting my hand-sewn eye process

[bonner1040]

If I have to ruffle a few feathers's to make an impression on the thousands of people that will read this in the years to come that's OK with me it really is because sewing rope by hand is crazy. Just plain crazy it doesn't make any sense at all.


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[CBM]

I guess your knowledge is the gold standard then. Wish we all could be like you. But theres is a saying for someone who thinks he knows everything.

 

[Dave Rohach]

Well, as you know, we all do crazy! Some just do it with, more panache' than others!


Dave6390 in WI

 

[bonner1040]

What do I know? I have 3 CNC sewing machines, a break bench, and a staff of people operating those professional tools. I'm an amateur at best. Let's talk about professional football instead, a topic I know nothing about.


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[Boomslang]

I highly doubt Nick and two major rope manufacturers would choose to speak out just to be killjoys. There are serious safety issues regarding hand sewn ropes.

 

[Tuebor]

After I master this, I want to know how to make my own rope.

 

[bonner1040]

My name is Nick Bonner. My personal phone number is 440.989.0444, office number is 317.293.3401. My work email is Nick@treestuff.com my personal email is bonner1040@gmail.com feel free to contact me 24 hours a day to talk about this or any other topic.


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[Dave Rohach]

Has the phone started ringing yet? Or, are the folks with stage names going to argue behind their Avatars? I may have just thrown a log on the fire!


Dave6390 in WI

 

[CBM]

It is amazing they spoke out. 2.5 years after this thread. Im sure its important to them

 

[CBM]

Do i get a free t shirt

 

[CBM]

Well i can see professionalism is working strong. Im sure that conversation will go really well

 

[NickfromWI]

You can totally do an hand sewn eye and do it well. But you can also THINK it's well done while it's actually crap. It's risky. You gotta test and break and document and break and document and retry and do it all over again.

It's not like splicing. There's no documentation on it. No recommendations. What thread should you use? What tension? How many stitches? What pattern? How do you finish it?

I know if I wanted to, I could dial this in and come up with guidelines we could all follow and we could make progress, picking up with the great work Andrew Joslin has done...and we could really make this an accepted idea.

But for now- stick with splicing


love
nick

 

[Dave Rohach]

Well, now you come to the party! Thanks Nick, it's good to hear that you have an interest in the neverending thread. Glad to see that you're still amongst the tried & true. Try, Test, Try, Test, & get a series of guidelines. No rope manufacturer will tell you to trust hand sewn unless certain guidelines are met. Hope all is well in Cali.


Dave6390 in WI

 

[jcarufel]

At Bartlett Arborist Supply, we would in no way, shape, or form endorse this. I understand the need for innovation and the likes but this is a form of regression in my opinion. Why question this? We are a professional industry that has set guidelines and standards that should be followed to ensure the safety of yourself and others.

Even if Moss and the others are great at their sewing, the biggest problem I see is some complete amateur coming in and doing a half ass job and dying because they thought the stitching was the same as putting a patch on their jeans. This will open up a massive can of worms that could easily get people killed. And for what at that point? Save a couple bucks? Feel like you invented a sewn eye to eye? Sorry, been done before...

Last year I trained 1200 people. Out of the 1200 we had 3 that had hand sewn gear. Guess what happened? I cut it up and removed it from their gear without questioning it because their is no guarantee on it that they did it correctly and even if they did do it "correctly" there are still far too many variables in the equation.

Stay safe! We love everyone that we get to climb with and will hopefully get to climb with in the future! Cheers!

 

[SoftBankHawks]

You can totally do an hand sewn eye and do it well. But you can also THINK it's well done while it's actually crap. It's risky. You gotta test and break and document and break and document and retry and do it all over again.

It's not like splicing. There's no documentation on it. No recommendations. What thread should you use? What tension? How many stitches? What pattern? How do you finish it?

I know if I wanted to, I could dial this in and come up with guidelines we could all follow and we could make progress, picking up with the great work Andrew Joslin has done...and we could really make this an accepted idea.

But for now- stick with splicing


love
nick

It is a niche discipline, I wonder if there will ever be such clarity? What kind of margin makes a splice safe? Certainly a beginner has resource to measure things correctly but it comes down to skill and discipline to finish it well. Do you have plans to make stitching instructions?
Force input and rope stretch between Ddrt and SRT should be considered, I guess.
I cut open a teufelberger 10mm stitch, was surprised to see the defined lines from each pass.....a machine really packs in a lot of thread on each pass too.
I wonder how much redundency is designed for this method?
Nick Bonner, thank you for your concern. Do you mind to talk about your stitch pattern, type of thread, needle shape, compression between legs etc etc. Some clue as to how you have arrived at your dispassion for hand stitching. Have you witnessed a failure first hand? I'm curious. Can we accept that some are for it and others not and have an objective technical discussion? I've made around 15 hand stitches, most have been pull tested but my first one is still used on my traverse line. I'm sitting on the fence, can't decide how I feel. It was your company that melted my rope, by the way.

 

[RopeShield]

Always have a back up. Add a second stitch area or atleastbdouble your stich area.
Or relegate to work positioning and knot primary.

 

[DSMc]

..... Can we accept that some are for it and others not and have an objective technical discussion?......

Why? It is a terrible idea. Three half-hitchs will hold most anything so should we experiment by replacing all of our knots with half-hitchs? Many climbers have successfully, free-climbed trees. Does that also make it a topic for discussion and development? Do you not wonder at the lack of hand-sewn eyes in history?
It is not like we are trying to overcome a limiting component. Our needs are already well met with simple and safe alternatives.

 

[NickfromWI]

Even if Moss and the others are great at their sewing, the biggest problem I see is some complete amateur coming in and doing a half ass job and dying because they thought the stitching was the same as putting a patch on their jeans.

Your concerns should also apply to climbing trees, splicing, tree work, welding, working on engines.

The more you know, the more you can do. Right now very few people know anything. The most we can all do is experiment.


love
nick

 

[Worthaug]

IMHO buy a hitchhiker, go SRT and you won't need stitched lines/cord.

If you SRT and don't have a spliced eye termination to make everything so much easier than you're missing out.
Examples (remember the spliced eye is not bulky but streamlined )-
-forwarding your tail with a quickly attached throw ball
-joining lines quickly and safely without bulk (an oval quick link will pass through crotches easier than a knot)
-tail retrievable redirects
-DdRT on tail
-Choking a spar with a steel biner or quick link
And so many more!
[emoji2] [emoji38]

Reed Wortley
CTSP #01739
ISA CA #SO-6953A

 

[CBM]

Seriously thanks for everyones concern. Using my sewn eyes i always use a second line with a hand splice ive done for redundancy hehe. I think we should let people choose if they want to take the time to study and enjoy doing something. All i think is that its harsh to lump everyone into one category.