Did you ever...?

moss

moss

Been here much more than a while
Location
Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
Did you ever stand under a tree and say to yourself: "I really want my line through that nice Y at the top of that big and tall red oak"? Even though it's too obstructed to hand-throw at the 85' target? Then after 3 failed slingshot throws: 1. Slingshot tubing too cold, aim good but shot a few feet low. 2. Put a lighter throwbag on thinking "that will reach" nope, total blooper, nope. 3. Heated the slingshot tubing in the cab of my pickup, nice hard shot! Deflected with a thud off an obstructing branch. 4. Heated the tubing again, tucked the slingshot head under my hoodie, set up quick and let it fly... yeah!!! The throw bag sailed through like it was going into orbit, a beautiful sight.

It's those moments that make up for all the bad throws, stuck bags, tangled up throwline etc etc.
-AJ
 
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moss said:
Did you ever stand under a tree and say to yourself: "I really want my line through that nice Y at the top of that big and tall (name your tree species)", even though it's too obstructed to hand-throw at the 85' target? Then after 3 failed slingshot throws, 1. Slingshot tubing too cold, aim good but shot a few feet low. 2. Put a lighter throwbag on thinking "that will reach" nope, total blooper, nope. 3. Heated the slingshot tubing in the cab of my pickup, nice hard shot! Deflected with a thud off an obstructing branch. 4. Heated the tubing again, tucked the slingshot head under my hoodie, set up quick and let it fly... yeah!!! The throw bag sailed through like it was going into orbit, a beautiful sight.

It's those moments that make up for all the bad throws, stuck bags, tangled up throwline etc etc.
-AJ
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Oh, Yeah!

My neighbor hired an arborist crew last year: Four "seasoned" guys who had never heard of a Big Shot launcher--the sort of folks who know what they know but haven't learned anything new in the last 10 years. I watched as one fellow tried to hit an 80-ft crotch by throwing a frayed duct-taped throw-bag on wide 40-ft-high trajectories--while the other guys looked on and laughed. Not one of them had a better throwing technique. As this tree would undoubtedly land in my yard if they didn't set a proper line high up, I finally asked, "Where's your big sling shot?"

All four of them gave me a crazy look and had no idea what I was talking about. I retrieved mine from the basement and got myself set up. With the team watching me like hawks, I nailed the small 80-ft-high crotch on the first shot. Huzzah! Hurray! Unbelievable, cried the crowd! Man did I feel good about that . . . .

When they were leaving, I asked if they were going to ask their boss for a Big Shot for Christmas. "Never," they responded, "he never buys us tools." Should we guess how many manhours this guy's three crews could save each day if they had the right tools?

John
 
JCB said:
Oh, Yeah!

My neighbor hired an arborist crew last year: Four "seasoned" guys who had never heard of a Big Shot launcher--the sort of folks who know what they know but haven't learned anything new in the last 10 years. I watched as one fellow tried to hit an 80-ft crotch by throwing a frayed duct-taped throw-bag on wide 40-ft-high trajectories--while the other guys looked on and laughed. Not one of them had a better throwing technique. As this tree would undoubtedly land in my yard if they didn't set a proper line high up, I finally asked, "Where's your big sling shot?"

All four of them gave me a crazy look and had no idea what I was talking about. I retrieved mine from the basement and got myself set up. With the team watching me like hawks, I nailed the small 80-ft-high crotch on the first shot. Huzzah! Hurray! Unbelievable, cried the crowd! Man did I feel good about that . . . .

When they were leaving, I asked if they were going to ask their boss for a Big Shot for Christmas. "Never," they responded, "he never buys us tools." Should we guess how many manhours this guy's three crews could save each day if they had the right tools?

John
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Great story!
 
I never used a high projecting siege device in tree infiltration. But, see they have a place were height is the desired approach of attack.
I just have use a Edelrid 9.4oz carabiner on my rope to throw over a branch up to 35ft, then datch it down, advancing from there.
I was pretty good with a slingshot when I was young, it sounds fun.
 
Alternate sadder ending: you downsize the bag, realize your line is just a bit too heavy for the bag and how well you can heat your tubing and get the shot off before it cools - so after "x" many failed shots you settle for a lower crotch. Sort of a half success. Always want the best tip, can't always get it.

How about the finery of how the line is flaked affecting your aim despite aiming really well? That's got me a few times.

Best one is huge thump onto neighbours shed roof or big splash into their swimming pool;) Thump on neighbour's house roof is a big no no. Customer's roof, well, ok.
 
moss said:
1. Slingshot tubing too cold, aim good but shot a few feet low. 2. Put a lighter throwbag on thinking "that will reach" nope, total blooper, nope. 3. Heated the slingshot tubing in the cab of my pickup, nice hard shot! Deflected with a thud off an obstructing branch. 4. Heated the tubing again, tucked the slingshot head under my hoodie, set up quick and let it fly... yeah!!!
Click to expand...
I've made trigger position adjustments to compensate for the temperature, but your post got me thinking. I wonder how much you can "warm up" the tubing by stretching it several times just before taking a shot. Bending a piece of metal repeatedly can heat it significantly. Although the tubing doesn't have much heat capacity, seems like that could still help. Anybody tried it?
 
@Bart_ yeah, often I’ll settle if I can’t get the high TIP I’d like to have. In this case i wanted as high as possible, using it as support while taking down another tree.

@Dan Cobb I’ve tried many different things to get slingshot tubing to work in cold weather. My favorite is cooking the tubing in hot water with a single burner backpack stove, works great. When you stretch the sling it exposes more of the surface area of the tubing to cold air and cools it down even faster. Firing at 10 degrees f. I’ve had the latex turn white and lose all elasticity, it hung like slightly curly pasta almost the full length of the pole. I thought I’d destroyed the sling tubing but it returned to normal once I warmed it up.
-AJ
 
moss said:
Big slingshots are good for getting precise throwline placement when there is “traffic”, lots of interfering branches, and the tree has a high crown, unreachable by throwing a monkey fist or heavy carabiner.
-AJ
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I love my Bigshots. We have one in each truck, and with a 10 oz. throw bag, my out-of-practice self can still usually hit a reasonable target at 90-100’. And I can punch right through a Honey Locust with all its snarled branches with a heavy bag at lower heights. Amazing how useful those things are, especially for something so simple!
 
moss said:
Did you ever stand under a tree and say to yourself: "I really want my line through that nice Y at the top of that big and tall red oak"? Even though it's too obstructed to hand-throw at the 85' target? Then after 3 failed slingshot throws: 1. Slingshot tubing too cold, aim good but shot a few feet low. 2. Put a lighter throwbag on thinking "that will reach" nope, total blooper, nope. 3. Heated the slingshot tubing in the cab of my pickup, nice hard shot! Deflected with a thud off an obstructing branch. 4. Heated the tubing again, tucked the slingshot head under my hoodie, set up quick and let it fly... yeah!!! The throw bag sailed through like it was going into orbit, a beautiful sight.

It's those moments that make up for all the bad throws, stuck bags, tangled up throwline etc etc.
-AJ
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AJ what was the ~temp - any idea?
I've defaulted to my potato gun in cold temps (-10 degC about the lowest). Usually only get one or two shots even with this, before snow/ ice freezes everything up if I have to repeat the shot (highly probable with spruces). Have tried a bit of baby powder on the bag before it goes down the tube, but this turns to glup when wet - a new dry throw bag may get an extra shot or two. Outa the truck first thing in the day no problem - second or third tree of the day not so much.
As per my other comments on iced up ropes and a munter to strip glop coming down, stuff sure works differently in the very cold. A distinctly "alpine" feel about these endeavours at times. Thankful for warm shop or house to dry stuff off in overnight.
 
ghostice said:
AJ what was the ~temp - any idea?
I've defaulted to my potato gun in cold temps (-10 degC about the lowest). Usually only get one or two shots even with this, before snow/ ice freezes everything up if I have to repeat the shot (highly probable with spruces). Have tried a bit of baby powder on the bag before it goes down the tube, but this turns to glup when wet - a new dry throw bag may get an extra shot or two. Outa the truck first thing in the day no problem - second or third tree of the day not so much.
As per my other comments on iced up ropes and a munter to strip glop coming down, stuff sure works differently in the very cold. A distinctly "alpine" feel about these endeavours at times. Thankful for warm shop or house to dry stuff off in overnight.
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Was around 28f, not too bad for climbing at all. In mid-30’s there is noticeable decline in latex tubing perfomance, down to 25 and lower i have to warm the tubing or fahgetaboutit. Using the campstove/hot water technique it doesn’t matter how low the temperature gets. The colder it gets the more quickly you need to get the shot off.
-AJ
 
moss said:
Did you ever stand under a tree and say to yourself: "I really want my line through that nice Y at the top of that big and tall red oak"? Even though it's too obstructed to hand-throw at the 85' target? Then after 3 failed slingshot throws: 1. Slingshot tubing too cold, aim good but shot a few feet low. 2. Put a lighter throwbag on thinking "that will reach" nope, total blooper, nope. 3. Heated the slingshot tubing in the cab of my pickup, nice hard shot! Deflected with a thud off an obstructing branch. 4. Heated the tubing again, tucked the slingshot head under my hoodie, set up quick and let it fly... yeah!!! The throw bag sailed through like it was going into orbit, a beautiful sight.

It's those moments that make up for all the bad throws, stuck bags, tangled up throwline etc etc.
-AJ
Click to expand...


I have a few stories like that.

But there are very rarely any witnesses. It's like a second set of eyes increases the level of chaos.
 
Moss, brush off your fabrication skills. Co-credit? Grab some carbon fiber or carbonized conductive cloth, a little thin fleece fabric and make a tubing warmer sock that would stay relatively anchored to the slingshot head. Tuck each tubing leg into it's warmer perhaps folded a time or two, flip on the battery power. When it's up to temp, or even on the hot side, deploy and shoot. You can heat it in place, eliminates the time to walk from truck cab or get it out of the hot water. Would get it hotter than cradling folded tubing in situ in your bare hands - my go to. Possible version is the fleece layer accordions beautifully and could extend at least partly down the stretched tubing to slow the cooling. It would dissipate some energy during firing but maybe the gain would outweigh that.

Whaddaya figure? Want to become rich off of it, a bonafide hundredaire? ;) Or would we have to price it like the Arborella?
 
I have a few throwline headache stories.

I once spent near an hour fighting with the throw line and throw ball, and with each toss my vocabularly became more...how shoud we say it....frustrated like? Just a tree with a bunch of leads and branches and wasn't getting it where I needed it.

Another time I wanted to shoot a second climb line in a tree that way nearby to the one I was climbing, got it up there, but it wrapped around some tiny branch and we couldn't pull it down. Are you kidding me?? So I ended up climbing as high as I could and cutting the string. Left the throw ball and what was left of the string for the birds.

And the most recent occurence was a job I did this past October. Was trying to shoot a rigging line high into a tree to help with rigging of another tree we were piecing out with a 25ft pole saw over a backyard structure. Got the line in, and then start pulling the rigging line up, well somehow the carabiner hooked itself onto a tiny little snag and I couldn't get that sh*t down. Idk if I forgot to lock it (it was a screw lock) or if it came undone. So I had to now climb up this tree that had a really heavy lean, and try and maneuver a big heavy pole saw to unhook the end of the line and carabiner because I couldn't reach it climbing and didn't trust climbing out there. Ended up having to cut the rigging line with the pole saw and leave the carabiner. That pole saw was awkward as heck to balance while hanging suspended in midair.
 
I feel your pain. I always keep scenarios like that in the back of my mind when I'm setting up. They exponentially cripple your morale and progress. Sometimes I opt out of an ideal shot because I spider sense the bad throw-line juju coming. Also never, ever, assume you can pull the throw-in back with the bag attached. It will loop-de-do around something and tie itself in a knot. Lower, untie, pull, start over.

Moss, I did some preliminary work. There's bupkuss for carbon cloth out on the market. I found some tape strip style and the preliminary numbers say its viable. Somewhere in my shop stash I have some carbon cloth from at least a decade ago. If it's not too far off the strip parameters, it should hopefully be viable too.

Now the legal fine print. Standard Reg clause, if the idea is taken copied/tweaked and offered for sale for profit "Bollocks".
 
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Bart_ said:
I feel your pain. I always keep scenarios like that in the back of my mind when I'm setting up. They exponentially cripple your morale and progress. Sometimes I opt out of an ideal shot because I spider sense the bad throw-line juju coming. Also never, ever, assume you can pull the throw-in back with the bag attached. It will loop-de-do around something and tie itself in a knot. Lower, untie, pull, start over.
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Yeah, I've had it happen before where I think I can pull it back through and over a croth / union to set up again but it get's stuck. Ugh, just a headache.

It can defintely derail progress and sometimes you just need to take a step back, take some deep breaths, relax, and then continue. Getting worked up about it isn't good for you or your crew. Nor does it look good if the customer / curious neighbor's are watching. Sometimes calling a timeout to reset your focus and mindset can be highly productive and beneficial.
 
4. Heated the tubing again, tucked the slingshot head under my hoodie, set up quick and let it fly... yeah!!! The throw bag sailed through like it was going into orbit, a beautiful sight. You attach your line and give it a good yank to pull it through the crotch and everything goes slack and falls to the ground. Just as you realize your brand new throwline just snapped the client asks over your shoulder, "Is that supposed to happen?"

5. You get the right tool for the job.
Tree_cuttingPhoto.jpg
 
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