- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Re: Definition of \'Professional\'
Daniel...define common sense for me, please.
Daniel...define common sense for me, please.
Definition of 'Professional'
- Thread starter Tom Dunlap
- Start date
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
Re: Definition of \'Professional\'
here's one:
Good sense and sound judgment in practical matters..
or:
the practical application of sound judgment often derived from a combination of knowledge and experience and often used to accomplish task or achieve positive results in a logical manner
here's one:
Good sense and sound judgment in practical matters..
or:
the practical application of sound judgment often derived from a combination of knowledge and experience and often used to accomplish task or achieve positive results in a logical manner
Re: Definition of \'Professional\'
[ QUOTE ]
... In his mind you become professional when you become confident of the result. This skill based definition has merit, compared to the economic based definition often used. [/b]
[/ QUOTE ]
I am not a fan of this definition as I believe it propagates a misunderstanding of the word.
The root of the word professional is "profession" most commonly viewed as how someone makes a living. The skill at which someone demonstrates that is not part of the word, but a wishful thinking that has been added to its meaning. We all know of plumbers and carpenters, for instance, who definitely make their living at it but are also horrible at what they do. But are labeled "professionals".
This is another case of trying to squeeze too much out of a single word.
As far as laws regarding safety, I am not a fan of limiting an individual's choice to assess and accomplish a specific task. Too many variables. It would be similar to saying only one specific knot should be used in a given situation.
David
[ QUOTE ]
... In his mind you become professional when you become confident of the result. This skill based definition has merit, compared to the economic based definition often used. [/b]
[/ QUOTE ]
I am not a fan of this definition as I believe it propagates a misunderstanding of the word.
The root of the word professional is "profession" most commonly viewed as how someone makes a living. The skill at which someone demonstrates that is not part of the word, but a wishful thinking that has been added to its meaning. We all know of plumbers and carpenters, for instance, who definitely make their living at it but are also horrible at what they do. But are labeled "professionals".
This is another case of trying to squeeze too much out of a single word.
As far as laws regarding safety, I am not a fan of limiting an individual's choice to assess and accomplish a specific task. Too many variables. It would be similar to saying only one specific knot should be used in a given situation.
David
TreeLogic
Branched out member
- Location
- Coastal SC
Re: Definition of \'Professional\'
Man, I tried real hard to stay out of this one.
Pretty much agree with everything David said, above...
There are inherent dangers in life. Period. The dummies die from them. The smart ones carry on and procreate. Unfortunately, our government is trying to get more dummies in the gene pool.
Having said that, Tom, I see exactly where you're coming from. The pucker factor goes up every time I see one of the guys (or girls) breaking a safety rule. I get dirty looks when I stop work to make someone put their hearing protection on. They have to hear me say, "If you can't hear your grandkids when you're sixty, you're not gonna be able to blame me!"
But there's gotta be some gray area in these rules. You can't beat 'em to death with that stuff. They start to think you're paranoid. I have to keep myself in check. At times, we all do.
Please don't take this as an attack, Tom; you thought Jomoco was going overboard with the WTC thread. I personally dont like to wear a helmet when I ride a bike. Sometimes I drive my truck without my seatbelt on. It's my choice. And yes, there's a difference in personal life and the jobsite. If someone has an issue with our safety program well, they don't have to hire us anymore.
I've worked on many a roof. There are times when I demand being tied in and there are times when I find it to be more of a hazard than not being tied in.
Who knows, I might end up on my own "dummy list" one day. So be it.
Man, I tried real hard to stay out of this one.
Pretty much agree with everything David said, above...
There are inherent dangers in life. Period. The dummies die from them. The smart ones carry on and procreate. Unfortunately, our government is trying to get more dummies in the gene pool.
Having said that, Tom, I see exactly where you're coming from. The pucker factor goes up every time I see one of the guys (or girls) breaking a safety rule. I get dirty looks when I stop work to make someone put their hearing protection on. They have to hear me say, "If you can't hear your grandkids when you're sixty, you're not gonna be able to blame me!"
But there's gotta be some gray area in these rules. You can't beat 'em to death with that stuff. They start to think you're paranoid. I have to keep myself in check. At times, we all do.
Please don't take this as an attack, Tom; you thought Jomoco was going overboard with the WTC thread. I personally dont like to wear a helmet when I ride a bike. Sometimes I drive my truck without my seatbelt on. It's my choice. And yes, there's a difference in personal life and the jobsite. If someone has an issue with our safety program well, they don't have to hire us anymore.
I've worked on many a roof. There are times when I demand being tied in and there are times when I find it to be more of a hazard than not being tied in.
Who knows, I might end up on my own "dummy list" one day. So be it.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Re: Definition of \'Professional\'
[ QUOTE ]
Bonner,
Why didn't the guys on the flat roof have on fall protection?
[/ QUOTE ]
This evening I realized how I could have asked this question without it sounding confrontational. That wasn't my intent at any time.
Had I asked if the exposure to falling from the roof was covered during the pre-work briefing it would have been better. I apologize for not taking more time to phrase my question better.
On one roof clearance job I did, with a climbing setup, I had a limb to toss off the roof. It wasn't very big either. When I did the spear chuck the limb rolled or caught on something which made me get tangled in the limb a little. My climbing system caught me and I didn't go over the edge. But, had I not had the climbing system on I would have been tangled in the limb and gone over the edge.
[ QUOTE ]
Bonner,
Why didn't the guys on the flat roof have on fall protection?
[/ QUOTE ]
This evening I realized how I could have asked this question without it sounding confrontational. That wasn't my intent at any time.
Had I asked if the exposure to falling from the roof was covered during the pre-work briefing it would have been better. I apologize for not taking more time to phrase my question better.
On one roof clearance job I did, with a climbing setup, I had a limb to toss off the roof. It wasn't very big either. When I did the spear chuck the limb rolled or caught on something which made me get tangled in the limb a little. My climbing system caught me and I didn't go over the edge. But, had I not had the climbing system on I would have been tangled in the limb and gone over the edge.
Richard Mumford-yoyoman
Been here a while
- Location
- Atlanta GA
Re: Definition of \'Professional\'
[ QUOTE ]
Dude, it was an $800 job.
[/ QUOTE ]
I for sure don't want to get in the middle of REAL professionals being more professional but.........
just a couple of observations.
Would you not want to lessen your exposure to risk if there is less money in it?
Perhaps it is easy for guys that spend so much time at "real" heights to disregardful something like a flat roof.
...this being said, I understand risk management and take risks just for the fun of it and once in a while for money.
Enjoyed the video, watched it several times.
It is great to read and learn for real pros here.
Thanks
[ QUOTE ]
Dude, it was an $800 job.
[/ QUOTE ]
I for sure don't want to get in the middle of REAL professionals being more professional but.........
just a couple of observations.
Would you not want to lessen your exposure to risk if there is less money in it?
Perhaps it is easy for guys that spend so much time at "real" heights to disregardful something like a flat roof.
...this being said, I understand risk management and take risks just for the fun of it and once in a while for money.
Enjoyed the video, watched it several times.
It is great to read and learn for real pros here.
Thanks
bonner1040
Branched out member
- Location
- Boston
Re: Definition of \'Professional\'
The 800 comment was not in the best form. However I stand by my reasoning that we performed that job safely and professionally.
The 800 comment was not in the best form. However I stand by my reasoning that we performed that job safely and professionally.
RopeShield
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
Re: Definition of \'Professional\'
I think the best is not to take anything personally on the forum.
Cheers to everyone who puts themselves out there and thanks Tom D for standing guard!
Cheers
I think the best is not to take anything personally on the forum.
Cheers to everyone who puts themselves out there and thanks Tom D for standing guard!
Cheers
macrocarpa
Branched out member
- Location
- Midwest
Re: Definition of \'Professional\'
Tom, I think Curtis had me out to his house for consults/pruning. Jonesborough, TN fine furniture maker specializing in antique chairs? Small world.
Tom, I think Curtis had me out to his house for consults/pruning. Jonesborough, TN fine furniture maker specializing in antique chairs? Small world.
