Decision Point Approaches

ATH said:
Regarding a lien on property...first, never gonna be a popular option. Second I don't claim to know these things but I have a friend to works in finance for a contractor supply company...so this comes from his stories about getting paid when the contractor skips.

He lends the money to the contractor and the contractor specifies which property those materials will be used on. Within a short window of that purchase/loan he notifies the property owner their property has been used as collateral. If that contractor doesn't pay, he puts a lien on the property. If he doesn't file that letter at the start of the project state law (in Ohio) doesn't allow him put a lien on the property. He hates sending that letter because it kinda sounds like he IS putting a lien on the property, so he gets phone calls and almost never uses that option...he just needs to have the paperwork filed. Again, I have no idea about VA, but since you are a subcontractor, my guess is something similar would have to happen to be able to put a lien on the property. Might be something to look into if you end up doing a really big project for a new contractor/client????
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I learned a little too late VA allows you 60 days for a mechanics lien. Unfortunately I missed that boat. Initially he owed me many "k" and made small payments on a schedule. I was just happy at that point to be getting my money and was feeling generous. At some point he maid it down to about 1500 and then just stopped. With late fees he's back up to 2k. I'm sure he thinks I'll just take the loss. I just can't swallow the loss on principle. It's just wrong because he's all over IG showing off and spending money. It's bullshit. I do have a bombproof paper trail. He's looked at the invoice 67 times. I have an audit trail on it and every email, text and instagram post. I just hate using my time to go jump through the hoops at the court house.
 
Boomslang said:
For some reason I wasn't in that pic. Maybe I was late that day or off eating somewhere? I was one of the scorers. Tall guy. If you remember. We exchanged a few pleasantries, but I'm like you, tend to keep to myself.

Re-reading what I posted, I apologize if it came off patronizing. I was a little drunk when I wrote it and at the time thought I was reading between the lines that there could be deeper issues. No offense intended or taken I hope.

I'm sure things will turn around. You seem like a smart and resilient person.
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Yes I remember you scoring but as long as we've interacted on here, I really would have loved to know who you were. I feel like I got robbed of the opportunity to meet someone who I've held in high esteem for a long time. I woulda loved to have had your company for dinner one night. I ended up doing my own thing so it woulda been cool to hang out with you.

That was a strange weekend. Day 1, in the morning, the hotel valet obliterated the entire drivers side of my truck in the parking garage. I'm not exaggerating. It was proper fucked. I had to struggle to set that aside and focus on the comp. Not easy for me. That may have been some of what you were picking up. Things are at a low but I've been low before. If it comes to the point where I need some help, I'm not too proud. Rite now I just need friends and people who understand. A friendly smile does wonders. Your assessment is true. There is always more to it. Maybe just not as dire of a situation as you thought. Or maybe it is, IDK. I'm ok and not offended. I appreciate the concern and the insight.

I would say, though I understand keeping to yourself (I do also) there are people who want to know you in person. I kind feel like I missed a chance to connect to somebody. Hope I get another chance.

I appreciate your communications with me.
 
Steve Connally said:
I learned a little too late VA allows you 60 days for a mechanics lien. Unfortunately I missed that boat. Initially he owed me many "k" and made small payments on a schedule. I was just happy at that point to be getting my money and was feeling generous. At some point he maid it down to about 1500 and then just stopped. With late fees he's back up to 2k. I'm sure he thinks I'll just take the loss. I just can't swallow the loss on principle. It's just wrong because he's all over IG showing off and spending money. It's bullshit. I do have a bombproof paper trail. He's looked at the invoice 67 times. I have an audit trail on it and every email, text and instagram post. I just hate using my time to go jump through the hoops at the court house.
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Sucks!
Good luck!!
At minimum leave a google review also on him on Facebook and IG plus any outlet to at least warn others before they do business with a BUM!
 
Dan Thornton said:
Agree totally. Over my lifetime, simply not making any big decisions when 'down' has been critical. Knowing it's a matter of time (or exercise or rest or safe people ...) lets me wait it out. Only one time did it last so long and so deep for me that I went for professional counseling, and that counseling was worth the money and time ten times over.
I also totally agree on the part - "my family is top priority." Won't put them at risk!
Wishing you the very best!
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Thanks Dan and thanks for sharing. I have survived some stuff in my days and did have some help through some of it. I needed that person to talk to and it was great because they understood what no-one else I had found understood. I see benefits and try to keep an open mind. I just have to try my best to work it out and not make those rash decisions like you said.
 
Steve Connally said:
Yes I remember you scoring but as long as we've interacted on here, I really would have loved to know who you were. I feel like I got robbed of the opportunity to meet someone who I've held in high esteem for a long time. I woulda loved to have had your company for dinner one night. I ended up doing my own thing so it woulda been cool to hang out with you.

That was a strange weekend. Day 1, in the morning, the hotel valet obliterated the entire drivers side of my truck in the parking garage. I'm not exaggerating. It was proper fucked. I had to struggle to set that aside and focus on the comp. Not easy for me. That may have been some of what you were picking up. Things are at a low but I've been low before. If it comes to the point where I need some help, I'm not too proud. Rite now I just need friends and people who understand. A friendly smile does wonders. Your assessment is true. There is always more to it. Maybe just not as dire of a situation as you thought. Or maybe it is, IDK. I'm ok and not offended. I appreciate the concern and the insight.

I would say, though I understand keeping to yourself (I do also) there are people who want to know you in person. I kind feel like I missed a chance to connect to somebody. Hope I get another chance.

I appreciate your communications with me.
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Man, I hope you get some bomb fucking hugs this week.
 
Steve Connally said:
So far I've taken the high road but the temptation to roast him over the fire publicly is soooooo strong.
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I got burned by some homeowners for $600 a few weeks ago. First time in ten years of business. I've mostly let it go but it's still stuck in the craw a bit. I was also tempted to drag it into the public sphere but decided to try and let it go for now.

B2b though, as in your case, this guy broke a sacred trust imo, what a chump.
 
He did break a trust. Kind of like stealing tools from somebody who uses them to make a living. I just want to do ti legitimately. Id rather have my day in court. I don't think he would pay me if I shamed him and it just doesn't sit rite. I will reach my breaking point and when I do, I'll let him have it.
 
@Steve Connally
Steve, take the guy to small claims court. You have the time and for sure will win given your paper trail and contract. HE WILL PAY and perhaps learn not to f people over. Long time ago (like 40 years) I was doing some production concrete coring in residential neighborhoods. 60 x 25.00 in a day type of thing. One guy refused to pay 5.00 of the 25.00 because he knew he could. I had the time and took it, it cost him about 250.00 in the end and a day off of his job. I had the free time. It is a lesson people need to learn once in a while, that to cheat hard working people is not right, and some of us have to do the teaching. GO TEACH.
 
Steve, like everyone here, I too am sorry to hear your business is suffering.

I know I have sometimes become mesmerized by impending disaster. Much like staring at the ground rushing up at you as you fall.

For your talk: it occurs to me that if @climbhightree is doing well in his business a combined presentation that shows the promise but also the pitfalls of the business model would be beneficial.

Also, when you pass through this difficult period, your talks will be all the richer.

Best of luck.
 
Not sure if its the same in all states, but depending on how the business is structured, it may require an attorney even for small claims court.

My business is an LLC. That is a separate legal "person" that provides a layer of insulation to separate personal assets and business assets. However, that also means the LLC is not "me" when it comes time to be represented in court so I cannot represent that separate legal "person" because I am not licensed to do so.

In this case that may or may not mean Steve can represent himself. It ALSO means the other guy may not be able to represent himself...which means it gets more expensive for him if he looses because he also has legal representation to hire.
 
ATH said:
Not sure if its the same in all states, but depending on how the business is structured, it may require an attorney even for small claims court.

My business is an LLC. That is a separate legal "person" that provides a layer of insulation to separate personal assets and business assets. However, that also means the LLC is not "me" when it comes time to be represented in court so I cannot represent that separate legal "person" because I am not licensed to do so.

In this case that may or may not mean Steve can represent himself. It ALSO means the other guy may not be able to represent himself...which means it gets more expensive for him if he looses because he also has legal representation to hire.
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I do believe you can add all of your costs, including court costs and attorney fees to your claim. I'm sure states differ though.
Second, I used to think that the LLC would keep my name off of legal documents. In other words, they can take everything from my business but personally I would not be exposed. I learned different.
 
treegongfu said:
Steve, like everyone here, I too am sorry to hear your business is suffering.

I know I have sometimes become mesmerized by impending disaster. Much like staring at the ground rushing up at you as you fall.

For your talk: it occurs to me that if @climbhightree is doing well in his business a combined presentation that shows the promise but also the pitfalls of the business model would be beneficial.

Also, when you pass through this difficult period, your talks will be all the richer.

Best of luck.
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I wouldn't necessarily say I'm doing well. 2023 was a ruff year to start a new tree related business. I've stayed fairly consistent with work, but I've had stretches with almost none. It is somewhat helpful that I'm in the first year, and there wasn't other grapple saw crane around...it gives me a new buzz/spike in work.

Steve and I talk quite a bit at different events, and via direct messages, through out the last 5-6 years. Especially when I was thinking about, and making the transition from a tree company to a crane company
 
Richard Mumford-yoyoman said:
I do believe you can add all of your costs, including court costs and attorney fees to your claim. I'm sure states differ though.
Second, I used to think that the LLC would keep my name off of legal documents. In other words, they can take everything from my business but personally I would not be exposed. I learned different.
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key work is 'prevailing party' when searching out specific state laws... don't ask me how I know...
 
Wishing you well with it Steve...
Tough situation...
I've been expecting a huge collapse in demand for some time. It's been getting slow around here too, mostly because most of the dead ash trees are gone. I've been thinking about alternative enterprises, because I think things are only going to get worse, and maybe much worse.

In 2020 and 2021 demand was off the charts. No one had ever seen anything like it. We had a triple perfect storm: the ash tree haulocaust was peaking and that's 11% of trees in PA, everybody was home and doing home projects from the pandemic, and the spotted lantern fly had just come to town and was wreaking havoc.
I was getting 15-20 phone calls a day. I couldn't even go look at them all, much less do them. My hip was about shot and I wasn't comfortable taking big tree jobs so stuck mostly to stump grinding. As such I lost a lot of clients that I had spent 35 years developing.

IN the meantime a lot of new guys started in the tree businesses and ended up with millions of dollars in equipment. Prices were through the roof and the work just kept coming.

Now the ash trees are about all gone which was a huge part of the demand, while supply is through the roof. The economy is questionable, but not as bad as it's likely to be soon. When the economy tanks, it's going to rock everyone. All these new companies will be all dresssed up and no where to go. Prices will fall like water as they just try to keep their guys employed. I've seen it a few times over the years, with 2008 being the worst. That could look like a cake walk if this economy really takes a dump.

The more I write here, the more it occurs that the time for you to get out is now. Unless you can think of a new way to get clients which is doable. Maybe get on the phone to all the local tree guys and landscapers to offer a new client special. You know your market. Other than that there is nothing less than a hurricane that's going to improve the situation much. From what you've said, the writing is on the wall, especially if you've lost your passion for the work, which it sounds like you have. Only you can say for sure though. Trust your intuition. Take some quiet time alone and pray and meditate on it.
 
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