Dead (and Undead) Wood

JeffGu · Feb 17, 2015

KevinS said:
...that improve air circulation improve tree health. Often seen in fruit trees etc.

I think this has more to do with things drying out quicker, no?

treehumper · Feb 17, 2015

Wall 4 closing the wound. the compartmentalization will happen behind the deadwood. There's plenty of wood eating critters in water, it's got a lot to do with temperature along with oxygen.

KevinS · Feb 17, 2015

JeffGu said:
I think this has more to do with things drying out quicker, no?

Makes sense nothing is worse than cool and damp actually to hot and damp maybe

JeffGu · Feb 17, 2015

Yeah, lot of stuff goes after trees, especially fruit trees, if they're in constantly damp, humid conditions. They need oxygen at night, but photosynthesis doesn't take place in the wood, so that's not an issue with the dead wood thing.

KevinS · Feb 17, 2015

JeffGu said:
Yeah, lot of stuff goes after trees, especially fruit trees, if they're in constantly damp, humid conditions. They need oxygen at night, but photosynthesis doesn't take place in the wood, so that's not an issue with the dead wood thing.

Right, I was saying deadwood for airflow help

RopeShield · Feb 17, 2015

These thoughts I am sharing come from our knowledge of osmosis and diffusion. Movement of material to reach equilibrium. The air and wound closure is well documented. Posted an academic study of it year or two ago here on the buzz. Correct me if I'm wrong.

RopeShield · Feb 17, 2015

Try to remember deadwood. Zero cellular growth=zero production of photosynthates etc this means less h20 movement.
Water will still move in deadwood and dissolve compounds. That is my thinking. A constantly super saturated piece of wood. Something entirely different and rarely encountered in trees

RopeShield · Feb 17, 2015

Should add the importance of water to deposit material. Like the stalagmites in a cave. Compounds that can't move and would be left behind at a wound.

DSMc · Feb 17, 2015

treehumper said:
Wall 4 closing the wound....

Deep sigh.... wall 4 and the closing of the wound are not the same.

RopeShield · Feb 17, 2015

Oh yeah, another thing I forgot to mention is the air at the wound starts a new chemical reaction at the newly exposed deadwood ed point. Drying is a physical reaction but there is also a chemical reaction occurring.

JeffGu · Feb 17, 2015

I'm about to start on a chemical reaction, myself. Might even spark some unexpected new growth in dead wood.

It involves a bottle of rum I found in a kitchen cabinet.

KevinS · Feb 17, 2015

JeffGu said:
I'm about to start on a chemical reaction, myself. Might even spark some unexpected new growth in dead wood.

It involves a bottle of rum I found in a kitchen cabinet.

Mmm my favorite. Just remember if you drink rum with breakfast you're not a drunk, you're a pirate.

guymayor · Feb 17, 2015

"Also how can a dead limb wick away the trees resources like leaving your faucet running."

Gotta agree with evo here; as the limb dies it dries, and the vessels shrivel/get plugged so the mechanism for reverse flow is inconceivable to my brain.
Which is no guarantee that it can't happen.

RopeShield · Feb 17, 2015

Water moves through wood in all directions. The material may also move cellularly or even intercellularly as gas

JeffGu · Feb 17, 2015

RopeShield · Feb 17, 2015

Resource translocation for removal of a living limb, not a dead limb done in stages is chock full of variables to control. Should really focus this to deadwood as in no active cellular division. Once transpiration is interrupted soon thereafter the flow of material will come to a crawl. Thinking about the pull of material from the roots being redirected or stopped or slowed and the same with the stop or slowing down of photosynthates it really can't matter much at all wether the limb is removed over a given length of time? months yrs? dunno
Who wants to start the discussion. I have my texts at the ready and Am prepared to one hand them.
Just going think about this not terms of limb on a tree but more like a seedling, it may make it easier to study/follow flow.

treehumper · Feb 18, 2015

DSMc said:
Deep sigh.... wall 4 and the closing of the wound are not the same.

My bad, I really oversimplified things.

guymayor · Feb 18, 2015

treehumper said:
My bad, I really oversimplified things.

Perhaps, but the need to draw a sharp division between the 2 seems more academic than practical. Exterior closure, interior closure, both parts of the broadly observed process of...

closure. Seems kinda like strictly demanding that the D in CODIT means Decay, and not Dryness or Dysfunction or Damage. Or am I missing some essential detail?
Deep inhalation...

DSMc · Feb 18, 2015

guymayor said:
....Or am I missing some essential detail?....

I doubt it, more likely just want to argue the point. But what is there to argue? Shigo always separated the two and he is the one that named, Wall 4. They are after all two entirely different processes. Wall 4 does not move once formed. Wound closure will continue to lay down new cells for as long as it takes.