Dangerous Technique Alert!!! 2

F

frans

Location
healdsburg, CA
As an owner of a tree company and a climber myself, it has come to my attention that in our industry their is a practice amonst climbers to engage in 'Climbing Competitions'. This is where advanced climbers engage in a series of events involving tree climbing.
Essentially, this 'competition' encourages a climber to climb a tree as fast as they possibly can wilst being under immense peer pressure to move even faster and faster through the tree.

It already has been recorded that their have been major accidents, even deaths involved with this event.

This practice is so very distressing to me because I am someone who is VERY aware of doing everything I can to promote safety in the workplace.
I feel it is my duty to campaign against this and make a change in our industry for safeties sake.

I am dismayed that even well respected 'icons' in the industry turn a blind eye to this. (you know who you are)

Encouraging a climber to move at this high rate of speed while suspended high above the ground is not only dangerous, but also foolhardy.
Climbers should move slowly and carefully while climbing aloft. Encouraging, nay even demanding, a climber to move in this speedy fashion is downright immoral.
It does not take into consideration that the person climbing may be exceeding their abilities as a climber and may even be taking risks that they would not ordianarily make on the job site.

Not only are the competitions dangerous, but also they are discriminatory toward the 'climbing challanged' tree workers among us.

As persons who recognize all people as being intrinsicly important, we need to stamp out this wicked practice.

As a person who cares about my business and wants to ensure the workers in my business are healthy and able to work another day, I strongly encourage the industry to STOP THE AWFUL MADNESS PLEASE!

This is a message from the STAMP! coalition. Promoting a safer, saner tree industry for all.

Join STAMP today to make a real difference for a more equal fair and just society.
(.002%ofyourdonationsgotowardspromotingabetterworld,therestgoestowardsadministration)
 
Very interesting frans.

If I remember correctly more (higher rate?) accidents occur during training than on the job. This little bit of info was passed on in some training course I did.
 
Frans, is this for real? it’s not compulsory to compete! I for one have never taken part or even been to a comp simply because I can’t be bothered, and am past it now anyway! Is there really that much pressure and risk involved? Anyone?
 
Frans,

Hee hee, your a FUNNY guy, a REAL comedian.

The sad thing is your right.
 
I don't know about deaths in tree climbing competitions but I have heared of accidents. If I am not mistaken a person undertaking a resuce of an injured (competing) climber was injured themselves. I would think Tom and Mark might be better able to talk about specific incidents.
 
When there is competition there is the people who consider "winning ugly" winning. I mean we all try to be fair and supportive but the american football player (O.J.) comes out every now and then and it seems to be contagious. But these gatherings have great value, sharing new techniques, networking, whatever, I think I am just making a comment on society rather than TCCs. And ya what a ego boost when you turn out to be the best or at least in the same class. Or you get get a good reality check and learn improvement may be needed.
 
Frans, finally you coming round and seeing the light.

Lets list the events.

Throwball, timed.

Speed climb, who's the fastest.

Aerial rescue, timed.

Footlock, who's the fastest, timed.

Work Climb, timed plus technique (plumb bomb etc).

And for the shootout of top competitors the MASTERS WORK CLIMB . Timed and technique.

Throw ball. Now lets see, putting the pressure onto some-one in throwball giving them only 5 mins to set 3 lines for maximum points. This is extremely hazardous, I have seen limbs ripped off trees (penalties apply), throw balls go backwards into crowds, birds nests up trees as no-one has time to clear the string, rebounds and near gob smacks ... and the methods of attaching the ropes to the throwline highly questionable. This is a deadly event and needs banning.

Speedclimb. Oh my GOD! People just grab the belay line and go beserk, I saw one guy down 3 red bulls, take an anti histamine with 2 filterless cigarettes and go troppo! Dudes defy gravity in this event, slipping, sliding and raw humping their way up smooth straight sections. The dangerous part is when they leave the path and the belay line has obsticles included.

Aerial rescue. Now I figure it's a good thing to rescue some-one, and doing it in under 5 minutes when you have all the gear on and ready is also good, just like the work place. You'll have all your gear on, line set, that's how we do trees. The message is clear on this one ... if you dont think you can do it in 5 minutes dont bother coz after that it aint worth getting that guy down.

Footlock. Speed is everything here, your tether is just the right length for maximum strides. You are also on belay just incase. Just like a real work situation you do not take a second flip line or prussic or rope to do a switch over to work the tree. I have seen dudes come sliding down burning their prussic and fingers ... lucky they were on belay. But imagine the harrowing experience of watching them switch attachment points for tree work.

Workclimb. Oh what a ripper this is. First of all just like the work place you get a ride to the top. Most people follow the path of the first two guys so don't go first or second as it's a disadvantage to be the explorer/navigator for others. In an effort to be fast many have huge slack in the system, man a fall would be bad. Some serious swings go on, trunk thumping and over here on our slippery eucs some sliding. A number of bells need dinging.

Masters Work Climb. This is a technique timed event and most realistic to the work situation. Involves setting the high point, accessing the tree, dinging the bells and getting to ground plus pulling all your gear out. This is the premier event, right at the end of the day when it's getting dark and the sun is in your eyes and your bored out of your brain. Some dudes get disqualified here for sheer frustration after 3 throwballs get stuck and they dont even leave the ground.

Well, as you can see these events truly fit the work place and you can be guaranteed that if you hire the top 10 competitors to take down your next trees they'll be the best at it.
grin.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Frans-
what deaths (and when) have been attributed to the TCC?

[/ QUOTE ]

tophopper,

I think frans was attempting to be sarcastic but he failed miserably, He actually highlighted real problems with TCCs.
 
I would like to take this time to thank you all for your enlightened responses.
Please continue with your in-depth analysis as we all have much to learn about what we, climbers, take for granted.











Is there anybody out there? Hello?, Hello? (think Pink Floyd)
 
[ QUOTE ]
Frans, finally you coming round and seeing the light.

Lets list the events.

Throwball, timed.

Speed climb, who's the fastest.

Aerial rescue, timed.

Footlock, who's the fastest, timed.

Work Climb, timed plus technique (plumb bomb etc).

And for the shootout of top competitors the MASTERS WORK CLIMB . Timed and technique.

Throw ball. Now lets see, putting the pressure onto some-one in throwball giving them only 5 mins to set 3 lines for maximum points. This is extremely hazardous, I have seen limbs ripped off trees (penalties apply), throw balls go backwards into crowds, birds nests up trees as no-one has time to clear the string, rebounds and near gob smacks ... and the methods of attaching the ropes to the throwline highly questionable. This is a deadly event and needs banning.

Speedclimb. Oh my GOD! People just grab the belay line and go beserk, I saw one guy down 3 red bulls, take an anti histamine with 2 filterless cigarettes and go troppo! Dudes defy gravity in this event, slipping, sliding and raw humping their way up smooth straight sections. The dangerous part is when they leave the path and the belay line has obsticles included.

Aerial rescue. Now I figure it's a good thing to rescue some-one, and doing it in under 5 minutes when you have all the gear on and ready is also good, just like the work place. You'll have all your gear on, line set, that's how we do trees. The message is clear on this one ... if you dont think you can do it in 5 minutes dont bother coz after that it aint worth getting that guy down.

Footlock. Speed is everything here, your tether is just the right length for maximum strides. You are also on belay just incase. Just like a real work situation you do not take a second flip line or prussic or rope to do a switch over to work the tree. I have seen dudes come sliding down burning their prussic and fingers ... lucky they were on belay. But imagine the harrowing experience of watching them switch attachment points for tree work.

Workclimb. Oh what a ripper this is. First of all just like the work place you get a ride to the top. Most people follow the path of the first two guys so don't go first or second as it's a disadvantage to be the explorer/navigator for others. In an effort to be fast many have huge slack in the system, man a fall would be bad. Some serious swings go on, trunk thumping and over here on our slippery eucs some sliding. A number of bells need dinging.

Masters Work Climb. This is a technique timed event and most realistic to the work situation. Involves setting the high point, accessing the tree, dinging the bells and getting to ground plus pulling all your gear out. This is the premier event, right at the end of the day when it's getting dark and the sun is in your eyes and your bored out of your brain. Some dudes get disqualified here for sheer frustration after 3 throwballs get stuck and they dont even leave the ground.

Well, as you can see these events truly fit the work place and you can be guaranteed that if you hire the top 10 competitors to take down your next trees they'll be the best at it.
grin.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Who peepeed in your chereeo's?

If you think about these "competitions" as Exibitions, then your whole perspective will change. I personally have learned a lot from these Exibitions. I currently hold titles to some of them(watch out for my HUGE head). I have taught some "green" guys that were watching or competeing how to be safer in there everyday climbing. who knows, there might be lives saved from the watching of exibitions.

I will preach that you should climb like you are in a competition everyday. This means that you climb in a safe and efficient manor all of the time.

what i understand from all of the nay saying is that: there are guys that are too old(tell that to Strasser(46)) or too out of shape to be good in a comp...... but they do some great tree work..... that is what a Geezers comp and a good workout every morning are for... i am not good at competeing because i have ton's of natural talent(there are some like that).... it is because i spend alot of time training and working out.... I don't want to get up at 4:00am to work out, but i do... I don't want to eat tuna for lunch(i would rather have a Moe's buritto)..... I don't want to climb every tree that our crew needs to trim, i would like to ride a bucket... these are lifestyle choices that I have made, and if anybody thinks for a moment that this in any way slows my production, then i chalenge you to a brush dragging duel
parry.gif
I will tell you that i drag brush as fast as i can, and chase deadwood in the safest and quickest manor possible..... Why?..... it is training! and my employer benefits form my hard training.

no offence ment to anyone, but i found this thread offensive, and i hope that the orignal post was in jest.

I do know several guys that can compete and do everyday tree work very well(MC) and there are more that i do not know.
 
O.K,aaaaaa,

Lets try this,

Think of the Beetles song:
Elenor Rigby

Or the story of,
Alice and Wonderland

I honestly dont know what else to say...... I am at a loss for words.

Wait! I do know what to say!

I wish you all the best, I really really do.
 
Bickering Tree Guy Thread

When thers is reason to, I cut notches whilest tied to the spar.

I also paritcipate in, volunteer at, and enjoy tree climbing competitions.

Those are my two cents on this thread.
 
Re: Bickering Tree Guy Thread

I was inspired in many ways in 2004 at ISA Southern. Little did I know I would watch the two guys I work with now, diligently looking at them with binoculars taking notes and drawing pictures. Since then I have served as a judge. volunteer, chairman, spectator, and now competitor. I have never walked away from a competition without learning somenthing. The gesr inspection alone may bring unseen faults to your attention. Pre climb risk assesment and work planning can be fine tunes into a ritual. Arborists, whether climbers or owners can connect on a personal level in a relaxed environment and put small pieces to the bigger puzzle together. You can pick up an advantage, find an edge over your competiton, or otherwise discover how to be safer, more efficient, and profitable by inteacting with peers who are interested in you and arboriculture. The staging, logistics, and networking can build relationships you may never have had. From the public eye, the local and regional exposure can be priceless. You never know- a prospective client may be on the fence looking for inspiration to hire you. I personally feel climbing competitions regardless of how I participate are an invaluable tool, my skills are sharpened, I get real world training that translates to safer, more productive work, and the comaradirie and friendships anr priceless. I hope I can compete for many more years, and enjoy the competitions always.
 
[ QUOTE ]

Encouraging, nay even demanding, a climber to move in this speedy fashion is downright immoral.


[/ QUOTE ]

For real? Immoral?
thinking.gif


Hmmh. Well then, in your religion of "tree climbing," I will be sinning this June at the Rocky Mountain Chapter Climbing Competition.
grin.gif


And I plan on competing to the rules, which, are always safety minded.
 

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Frans: I know you didn't out right name names, but, I find it interresting (or should I say, ball-z?)that you'd post something like that on this site.
thinking.gif


Considering the fact that Mark Chisholm has been the most consistant top climber in the U.S. for at least a decade.

Mark is a good example of a safe, efficient, and yes, a fast climber in a tree. He is proficient. He is an expert. Nothing wrong about that.
 
Good thing that in my spare time,away from trees,I had a safe hobby racing stockcars....although I did give that up for Jeeping(and haven't been on my roof since)...
 
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