conifer removals... top down, or bottum up?

I

IJB

Location
Ontario, Canada
Just curious about the two main styles of doing a confier removal... or the typical way in which various arborists complete this task. I climbed a large road side white spruce today and my boss suggested I do the removal from top to bottom instead of the way I normally do them: skinning it as I climb up to the top, then blocking down the hieght. He has about 15 years of experience on me so I thought I'd give his suggestion a shot.

Anyhow, the removal went fairly smoothly... I fired the top down onto the road, then miss-machted four blocks off and skinned the rest as I went down on my rope. My major comment on this method is that it just doesn't seem nearly as safe, being that the branches get all hung up on each other. Once I was cutting away and I felt a tugg on my climbing line... a mass of six or so large branches were wrapped with my fall line? ...what if I needed to get to the ground quickly at that point? And another instance found my chainsaw lanyard wrapped around a branch which was tugging on it as I was cutting?

And finally you get to the last whorl, cut them off and send a huge mass of work for the ground crew to wrestle with.

...not recommended. It's a quick way of climbing, but the mess to deal with at the end isn't worth the climbing ease. I prefer skinning off the branches on the way up; it gives the crew something to do and the whole process works more smoothly - but that's just my opinion.
 
10-4, Smallwood...bottom up for me, too. I have heard people discuss leaving some limbs for the mass dampening effect when topping...maybe someone wants to discuss how much mass you need to leave.

Or do you go up, top it, then drop down below the lowest limbs and start working your way up again as you limb...that would save a lot of mess...but requires climbing the tree twice.

But, for sure, you don't want stuff tugging on your climbing line...keep it clear.
 
the only kickback incident in my 11 yrs of climbing happened when i was limbing a red cedar on the way down. we were going to drop the whole thing but my boss told me to crawl up there and put a big ol tag line in the top and limb it on my way down. by the time i got to the bigger limbs at the bottom there were so many limbs piled on them that almost as soon as the teeth of my saw hit the top of the limb it exploded from the tension and threw the saw back at my face. scared the crap out of me. never made such a mess on low limbs before so didn't know to expect that. i got lucky and had a learning experience instead of a trashed face. last time i tried that.
k.
 
I do most of my removals spurless with a mix of top down and bottom up. I get a line into the tree and go SRT for the top and get tied in. I then strip out all of the stuff I can cut and toss without creating a bunch of hangers and if neccessary set a block for the lowering line. Doing conifers without spurs, even large fir trees has made me faster not slower and a much better climber. One trick so the rope doesn't hang in the way of falling limbs or the ground crew is to get tied in at the top and stuff your rope into your rope bag and keep it clipped on your saddle. I use a Mountain Tools Feed Bag http://www.mtntools.com/cat/rclimb/rope/mt_feedbag.html clipped to my harness. It is really nice and compact and holds a 150' climbing line just perfect. Just make sure to put a stopper knot in the end of the rope so it doesn't just pop out of the bag and right through your hitch.
 
I have only done a few conifer removals, but the way i was shown and told to do it was top down, but on my way up clear out a drop path on one side so stuff doesnt get hung up. Is this how you top down guys do it?
 
I have done top down only 3 times and 2 of them had something damaged.

I had a small dead spruce in someone backyard. Recently deceased it was not a problem to sales to put a Climber in it. But On my preflight inspection I noticed the trunk was cracked and called in the bucket truck. No limbing went up and topped out the spruce. The branches got caught when it was falling turning it completely upside down, makeing it a giant lawn dart. The top went in to the ground then it flopped onto the fennder of the truck.

The second I was climbing another spruce right next to an apartment building, I was told by my supervisor to "just get up there and top it out then we'll drop the but dont worry about limbing" Lawn dart away!! It did the same thing but this time crashing thought a very nice bay window.

I wont go top down again.
 
I've prolly done thousands of conifer removals, and only a handful from the top down. There might be the odd scenario where it would make sense, but very seldom. One is, if you're logging the tree, and want a section to land flat, and have a cushioned fall. Mass dampening need is for sissies.

Tried that once on a 185 foot fir, after topping it, I dropped a 70 foot section, from 88 feet up, but it was so sparse that it still shattered. Still got a log or two out of it, and 2500 bf total or more. That tree took maybe 2.5 hours to get on the ground, and brought maybe $2500, which I split with the customer. That was back when export fir was paying as much as $1260 mbf...
 
almost alway bottom up - i can remember the occassional few with a speed line went top downish. whenever it goes top down the guys on the ground are not happy ;(


peace
 
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Mass dampening need is for sissies.


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Haha! /forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

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Cured myself of any worries in that area very early on in my "career", after topping out a few crooked spindly conifers...or alder. Look down after topping, or just give the tree a shake, then watch and feel the waves of motion below...
 
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Doing conifers without spurs, even large fir trees has made me faster not slower...

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Hmmmm. That would be interesting to see.
 
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Doing conifers without spurs, even large fir trees has made me faster not slower...

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Hmmmm. That would be interesting to see.

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yes. how do you quickly take apart the spar, especially if it's bare?
 
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90% of the time I'll limb em on my way up.

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I think your Avatar says it all

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Actually, I limbed it on the ascent, but at one time I climbed to the top to to descend and drop some weight off one side so I wouldn't have to use a rope. Or wedge.
 
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