Close Call Today

[Steve Connally]

This kinda thing screws with you head for a while. I had 2 incidents in one day last year and it stuck with me for a while. Good for you to talk it out!!

 

[Driftlessarborist]

I'm glad you are alright, may i ask how you got down from the tree?

 

[AdkEric]

Fortunately, my climb line didn't fall through my climbing device (BDB) after the cut, and I had plenty of length left. I pulled line through and tied an alpine butterfly, and cinched to the trunk with a quickie that rides on my saddle for a retrievable canopy anchor.

Honestly I'm not sure what I would have done if the line did slip through and I lost it.

 

[rico]

I don't think that making a base tie the villain here serves anyone. This was a mistake, plain and simple, and we're all glad you survived it!

It also wouldn’t serve anyone to suggest that a base tie didn’t play a large role in this close calI, and that this method doesn’t bring its own unique danger to an already dangerous job.

 

[Muggs]

The issue of whether or not a basal tie is inherently more dangerous than a canopy tie has been raised many times over the years on the Buzz, and elsewhere. Lots of valid opinions on both sides. Blind cutting with any saw, whether chainsaw or handsaw, is dangerous, regardless of the climbing system being used. Tensioned ropes get cut through like butter. Who here has ever clipped their lanyard on the backside of a spar with a saw? I certainly have. I don't see it as being any different. Tie in twice while cutting, know where your ropes are, and slow down...

 

[rico]

Tie in twice while cutting, know where your ropes are, and slow down...

all solid advice, but it doesn’t change the fact that working off a base tie increases the risk of cutting your climbing line…

I have done my far share of stupid shit in my life, but I have never so much as nicked my flip line when doing spar work. I was brought up with a bunch of old timers who very rarely had a second system when working wood down. It was usually 7/8” manilla wire core, and nothing More. It was engrained in my DNA to never even flirt with my flipline, and one of the things I was taught early on was to cut high (chest high) when chunking down logs. Keeps a wide distance between your saw and your flip line, and also makes it really easy to see what your doing, which result in clean accurate cuts. Win win.

 

[Mick Dempsey]

The issue of whether or not a basal tie is inherently more dangerous than a canopy tie has been raised many times over the years on the Buzz, and elsewhere. Lots of valid opinions on both sides. Blind cutting with any saw, whether chainsaw or handsaw, is dangerous, regardless of the climbing system being used. Tensioned ropes get cut through like butter. Who here has never clipped their lanyard on the backside of a spar with a saw? I certainly have. I don't see it as being any different. Tie in twice while cutting, know where your ropes are, and slow down...

I’ve done most stupid stuff, but I have never nicked a lanyard on the backside of a spar.

 

[Matias]

all solid advice, but it doesn’t change the fact that working off a base tie increases the risk of cutting your climbing line…

I have done my far share of stupid shit in my life, but I have never so much as nicked my flip line when doing spar work. I was brought up with a bunch of old timers who very rarely had a second system when working wood down. It was usually 7/8” manilla wire core, and nothing More. It was engrained in my DNA to never even flirt with my flipline, and one of the things I was taught early on was to cut high (chest high) when chunking down logs. Keeps a wide distance between your saw and your flip line, and also makes it really easy to see what your doing, which result in clean accurate cuts. Win win.

Sounds just like the guy I learned from. I know that that is the only way to cut a steelcore through, so I am ultra careful, and have always instinctively cut high, for the same reasons you've described. Never hit my lanyard with a chainsaw before, but more than a couple of times with a handsaw.

 

[Njdelaney]

T

It also wouldn’t serve anyone to suggest that a base tie didn’t play a large role in this close calI, and that this method doesn’t bring its own unique danger to an already dangerous job.

Both things are true. The base tie is just another thing the climber is responsible for selecting and utilizing. Certainly the difference is worth knowing but a configuration bears no responsibility for a human action. I don't think we disagree on this. Language is important and saying "a base tie contributed to this" is different than saying "the way you utilized a base tie contributed to this"

 

[rico]

I had 2 incidents in one day last year and it stuck with me for a while.

While working off a base anchor?

 

[rico]

T

Both things are true. The base tie is just another thing the climber is responsible for selecting and utilizing. Certainly the difference is worth knowing but a configuration bears no responsibility for a human action. I don't think we disagree on this. Language is important and saying "a base tie contributed to this" is different than saying "the way you utilized a base tie contributed to this"

I'll stick with "a base tie contributed to this".

 

[Muggs]

A chainsaw contributed to this as well.

 

[Njdelaney]

So did the tree.

 

[Treetopflyer]

I'll stick with "a base tie contributed to this".

As a guy who’s Nicked my basal anchor side maybe more than once in my career never full on severed it that I can recall.. I do consider it best practice for use without cutting and personally use it for access and execute a canopy anchor before working off it. Even a “canobase” if cutting work isn’t going on beyond or within the area. These are just basically subconscious practices based on past experiences for me because I like to not have to have it in my mind thinking about my base anchor side along everything else I wanna do up in the air.

 

[DSMc]

A base tied climbing system has no more inherent risk than any other climbing system or tool we use. Risk comes from improper implementation within a given situation, just like everything else we do or use.

I use a base tie almost exclusively, and have never been more thankful of its ability to make my climbing day safer.

 

[Treetopflyer]

A base tied climbing system has no more inherent risk than any other climbing system or tool we use. Risk comes from improper implementation within a given situation, just like everything else we do or use.

I use a base tie almost exclusively, and have never been more thankful of its ability to make my climbing day safer.

Do you climb many viney trees? English ivy perhaps?

 

[DSMc]

No, not any more, English ivy doesn't do well here. I have done many in the past so I understand just how congested things can get.

Wish I had had todays systems and climbing tools back then, would have made things much safer. With a base tie, it is fast and easy to use two ropes from two different suspension points while also keeping the load line and the base leg, out of the cutting zone.

 

[rico]

A base tied climbing system has no more inherent risk than any other climbing system or tool we use.

All the reports we hear of climbers and/or groundies cutting base anchors speaks to the inherent risks of working off of this system

In my 44 yrs of working aloft I have cut my climbing line exactly one time. Guess which system it was? In my eco system a base tie can be a wonderful tool for access, but can be very problematic and downright dangerous when it comes to working the tree.

 

[Treetopflyer]

No, not any more, English ivy doesn't do well here. I have done many in the past so I understand just how congested things can get.

Wish I had had todays systems and climbing tools back then, would have made things much safer. With a base tie, it is fast and easy to use two ropes from two different suspension points while also keeping the load line and the base leg, out of the cutting zone.

Yes, implementation of techniques that increase the safety margin are always welcome prefer a basal anchor if redirected away from the work area which is a great way to work if the works allows it. I know I fellow that plucked his basal anchor with a large limb removal and sent him for a ride up to his tip. He didn’t forecast this could happen and it almost cost him dearly . Competent guy just didn’t think it all through in that move. And my point is and I’m preaching to the choir here ,I know , but even just having that type of set up can in my opinion and all work scenarios varied.. it’s more rope in the system that COULD be a problem just based on fact it’s in the system

 

[DSMc]

Base-anchored climbing systems are not more dangerous than non-base tied systems. Climbing in the practice of arboriculture is unforgiving and only as safe as you make it.

Do take note that in the portion of the article I pasted below, most failures involved MRS. Some others involved SRS that used top ties not base ties, with just one really lame incident involving a SRS base tie.

Tree-Worker Safety Update

Tree-worker safety has become a popular topic at tree care [...]

tcimag.tcia.org

"Most of the falls involved climbers who either disconnected from their climbing lines while repositioning or changing climbing systems or experienced failure of their anchors – the branch for their tie-in point. Movable rope systems (MRS), what we used to call double-rope technique or systems (DdRT), comprised most fall fatalities, but a significant number occurred with stationary rope systems (SRS), once called single-rope systems. A key hazard with SRS is failure to adequately test the top anchor and having the anchor isolated. If it fails, there is no backup. However, there have been incidents related to the selection of the basal anchor, including one where a truck driving between the tree and the basal anchor caught the line and dragged the climber out of the tree."