Climbers for Christ

TreeLogic said:
So Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John wrote them 150 years after Christ's death, and resurrection? Four different people who all saw the same thing and gave four entirely personal, yet similar accounts of what they witnessed and lived? Hmmmm....where is your evidence of this please?
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Even christian biblical scholars date the first gospels to around 180 ad. Even if they were contempories, why should they be viewed as truth? If they were the word of God why then the discrepancies?
 
Check this out - probably available on Amazon, looks like the Climbers for Christ group will have a great reference point. Looks like an interesting read whatever your beliefs.

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Publisher -

http://www.dayone.co.uk/products/gods-trees
 
marlinspiker said:
Even christian biblical scholars date the first gospels to around 180 ad. Even if they were contempories, why should they be viewed as truth? If they were the word of God why then the discrepancies?
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This untrue. The gospel of Luke was written by Luke and he also wrote the book of acts and traveled with the saul the persecutor after he coverted to Christanity on the road to Damascus. Paul wrote every letter in the New Testament himself. John walked with Jesus from the beginning and wrote his gospel and revelations from the island of Patmos where he was sent to during excile after they boiled him in oil to kill him unsuccessfully. James was Jesus's brother as he was the biological child of Mary and Joseph. Who worships their brother?timothy was Paul's apprentice. It would help if you actually read the book instead of the Internet.do you realize that all of this is supported by written national history in Israel? That and church history tell that the bible we have today is formed out of 128 gospels most of which tell the exact same thing in different ways. The nostic gospels number more than 9 they would number 124. The reason they were not included is that they were redundant or not true to fact. If we take an event like 9/11 for instance how many crazies wrote books and made YouTube videos? That is not any different with the 128 different gospels. The editors choose the appropriate gospels through a mass vote of leadership due to factions warring with each other in the church over the truth. Those that had the most influence were the leaders that had discipled under one of the apostles. So the truth was told. By brother, best friend, persecutor turned devote follower, by trained doctor wanting to find out the real story and put down the way.
 
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Why speak in parables? Because it requires thought to dicipher not legalism which was just as repant then as it is now. If he had to break everything down into bite size chucks we could fill the library of congress with his life, death, and resurrection
 
Furthermore if you cannot understand wordly things, how then can you understand the heavenly things? You must have eyes to see and ears to hear the truth. Those you have to ask for. We as humans want to be our own gods and kings that is why we rebel against what we know to be true in our soul. God is a big God. He can handle it if you ask him to show you himself. You just have to have the faith to be able to ask. Asking him to heal great aunt Martha isn't realistic. You have to meet Him on His terms just as you would start a relationship with anyone else. I don't really care how anyone feels or thinks about what I believe, as I know the truth. So bash if you want, as what you do or say to me you do to Him as He lives in me. There is nothing you can say or do that hasn't been done to Him before.
 
I was grinning the whole 30 minutes it just took me to catch up on the last few days on here. Holy crap, I don't even know where to start except...Thank you! Just the mere fact that this is being discussed on the buzz is a blessing. As for those of you who are posting strong opinions and personal beliefs....I did not intend for this site to be a hot debate, but I guess that what you get for believing in one true God. One of the many influences behind this thread and for the Climbers for Christ idea is the 79 yr old owner of the company I work for. For the first 39 years of his life, he was a drunk, an asshole, a horrible husband, father, and employee. Then through a series of events he was saved by the God I believe in, Jesus Christ. In the next 30 years he dedicated his life to Christ and one of His greatest commandments, loving your neighbor. He was a tree topper by day (remember this was the 70's) and a Jesus follower by night. Even when our company reached the million dollar mark he didn't move out of the trailer park he lived in, because he thought these people need more help than someone down the road in a sub-division. He would employ ex-cons on work release, not because they were cheap (they were), but because he was trying to set them on a straight path, and he did on several occasions. This is the same man that passed his company on to his son along with his core values. And when I was in a downward spiral about 10 years ago with alcohol, among other things, he was the boss who didn't fire me ( I would've fired me), but gave me one more chance to shape up. It was after that chance that I met my wife, had two awesome boys, and finally last year came into a relationship with Jesus. This is the kind of change that Jesus can bring! And I've found that when you make your sole purpose in life trying to be an example for the One who saved you, no bad can come from it. Now, I'm involved in a class that's discussing apologetics (the reason for believing), and we're starting to discuss a lot of the questions, opinions, and views many of you have. If it's one thing I have, it is nothing but respect for anyone who's willing to back up what they believe. My only word of caution for you believers taking a stand, is....1st Peter 3:15, 15 But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect. If we can't make our case or stand with respect then no good will ever come from testifying. As Christians our goal is not to win arguments but people rather.
 
The main reason most Jews do not want to convert is the extreme anger and guilt associated with admitting that there leaders crucified the Messiah for a power trip! But if they really read their scriptures they would realize that this was forecasted a couple of thousand years before his arrival. The fact is everyone who is guilty of sin now and then and everywhere in between helped drive the nails into His flesh
 
And the weirdest thing is that He still loves us, He still forgives us, He still wants relationship with us. I love each and everyone of you. I am going to go to the sidelines. If anyone wants to debate or communicate via pm I will always answer when I have time.
 
aaronf said:
My only word of caution for you believers taking a stand, is....1st Peter 3:15, 15 But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect. If we can't make our case or stand with respect then no good will ever come from testifying.
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aaronf, thanks for that. I think maybe that was for me. Good food for thought and something to work on.
 
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Jeff_Cochran said:
The main reason most Jews do not want to convert is the extreme anger and guilt associated with admitting that there leaders crucified the Messiah for a power trip! But if they really read their scriptures they would realize that this was forecasted a couple of thousand years before his arrival. The fact is everyone who is guilty of sin now and then and everywhere in between helped drive the nails into His flesh
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You have got to be shitting me. That is one of the most ridiculous, untrue and horrifically intolerant things I've heard in a long time. I've avoided this thread because I know it's pointless arguing with the faithful. Everything you can say strengthens their personal belief because it's not based on logic and evidence it's based on feeling.
 
Jeff_Cochran said:
The main reason most Jews do not want to convert is the extreme anger and guilt associated with admitting that there leaders crucified the Messiah for a power trip! But if they really read their scriptures they would realize that this was forecasted a couple of thousand years before his arrival. The fact is everyone who is guilty of sin now and then and everywhere in between helped drive the nails into His flesh
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And this right here is why I hate religion. There is no acceptance, only persecution; no tolerance, only bigotry; no open-mindedness, only xenophobia. All while hiding behind a book.
 
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