Climber fatigue and heat exhaustion

Nice reply Colin

But reading between the lines, my concerns still stand.

Not least of which is technical credibility of expert witnesses investigating tree climbing accidents; I do not believe technical credibility is adequately appraised by some of the law societies.

Judges make decisions based on what expert witnesses tell them. That obviously has repercussions for the rest of us.
 
Paolo

I note your concerns, which I believe are unfounded.
You should know that I can not go into detail before the Court case. I will however make sure you receive the outcome and will be happy to discuss any issues then.

Colin
 
Colin,

Would I be correct in assuming that you would have assumed what with this being a climbing arborist orientated forum that people would naturally want more information about the nature of the accident?

I was aware that you said he was 'badly injured' in your first post.

Maybe after the case the climber could come onto to TreeBuzz and tell us all about it, in the 'awakenings' forum?
 
Hi Grover

Of course I realise and had assumed that this forum would be interested as well as being informative and helpful.

"Maybe after the case the climber could come onto to TreeBuzz and tell us all about it, in the 'awakenings' forum?"

I am sure that you realise that I can not discuss the detail of the case until it has been heard and a judgement been given. I am not sure if my client (the injured party) is an afficianado of the internet but if I cant get him to tell all in the this forum, then I certainly will do so and report the case details and the outcome.

Colin
 
I heard of a hurricane cleanup group that used a 90oz rule. When you've gone through 90 ounces of water, you're done for the day. I'm pretty sure that was in mild to cold conditions, when the heat is on the number would probably have to be adjusted up.

I use a 70oz Camelback and I'm usually pretty exhausted about halfway through my second tank full.

Just thought I'd mention it.
 
90 ounces? That seems low. Between 1 and 2 gallons is not uncommon for me up in New England. This is not just water, but a mix of Gatorade, juice, water, etc.
 
It works out about a pint of water an hour of hard exercise, with some form of electrolyte replacement (6 pints a day typically and NO, beer and coffee don't count!
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Don't think of rehydration as camel like storage. Water is used by the body to flush out toxins. The harder you work, the more toxins build up, the more flushing is required. Properly hydrated, your urine should be nearly clear. If it isn't at the end of the day, more flushing is required - you're dehydrated. Better to keep a steady influx of water through the day. If there are 16oz to a pint, a 90 oz bladder should keep you going through the day, with a pint before and 1 after work. This isn't just for hot weather - winter respiration loses just as much as sweating.

Food wise, 4,000 calories for hard exercise is required, possibly more for long strenuous days. That works out at about 2kg/4.4lbs of food a day.

Using these as base lines for a hard days work, you won't go far wrong. It doesn't matter what the food is constituted from to get through a hard working day - using the weight principle you should find enough calories. If your out of lunch or forgotten it, go and find something heavy from the grocers like short bread, fruit loaf, biscuits, marzipan, cheese etc. Probably explains why so many climbers are addictd to chocolate! Obviously, long term, minerals and vitamins with carbo/protein/fat balance need to be considered.

Don't just rely on the working day to keep fit - cardio-vascular and flexibility need additional work to balance the effects of a typical tree work day.

Rotating tasks through the day at best, week at worst, will help a lot toward reducing fatigue - refusals are often management issues. Acceptance of the 'athletic arborist' or 'industrial athlete' in the work place really needs targeting by the trade associations at both worker and employer. Wo/manpower is the mainstay of arboriculture - pity we don't maintain brain and body the same as lesser resources like computer and machinery...
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I think I have more of a problem in the winter when all I want to drink is hot coffee and tea. I have had some scary pee after a day of climbing and drinking nothing but caffienated diuretics.

In the summer I will suck on a camelback all day and take hose showers all day so I'm just soaking sweating all day.

Pickles, sourkraut, and coconuts are good hot weather foods.

I think what Oakwilt said is right on too. Its important to remember as a climber that you are your own boss. Even if you work for a company you are still your own boss.

I think a good company though should be trained to be more alert for signs of a fatigued climber and be able to call him off. There are a lot of cocky climbers out there that are not going to admit a weakness and stop when they are tired.

I hurt myself with out fail when I work when fautigued and dehydrated. knicks and bangs but something uncomfortable is bound to happen to my body when I get tired and my reflexes slow. Little signs that tell you to stop.
 
As to being your own boss, everyone has to be.
But it is also extremely important to be a part of a good team. Teamates who will watch each others back. The industrial athlete concept extends to the whole squad. A good coach is often an important component to a good team.
 
[ QUOTE ]
If there are 16oz to a pint, a 90 oz bladder should keep you going through the day,

[/ QUOTE ]

What!! I thought Tommy D was the only person who used the term 'bladder' for a drinking container!!!

Where I come from a bladder is something that stores urine.

Good post though Laz2.
 
[ QUOTE ]

Where I come from a bladder is something that stores urine.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ha ha ha! Nice one grover...I could use a 90oz bladder when at the bar on a busy saturday night - no need to interupt the cool flow of beer!

Hmmm...that could be read a couple of different ways - no, I didn't mean standing there with a plastic bladder and...oh, whatever!
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I recently purchased a 2 liter hydration system that was designed more for winter use, snowboarder or skiers. It has an insulation cover over the tube, which on non-insulated one, I have had to tube freeze up when out in weather less than 30 degrees, the shoulder strap has a pouch for the mouth piece to set in that you zip up, this keep the mouthpiece from freezing. The carry pack also has a bit more padding in the bladder sack. During the warm months the tube insulation also keeps the water in the tube from heating up. Ice can also be placed in the bladder in the summer months to help with keeping you cool.

90 oz of water is not a lot considering that normal consumption should be 8-10 (8 oz.) glass of water or fluid (non-alcohol) daily for a normal/average weight person – in normal heat and NON-strenuous activities. Here is a website that helps you calculate the amount of water you should intake:

http://www.csgnetwork.com/humanh2owater.html

I know that I can consume an entire bladder 70 oz. in less than two hours during strenuous work or exercise.
(disclaimer - everyone is different)


[ QUOTE ]
Where I come from a bladder is something that stores urine.

[/ QUOTE ]


re: bladders – you empty one to fill one . . . .

Does anyone use a carry backpack type of hydration system when climbing? How do you stay hydrated? How often do you take breaks? Does the season determine your fluid intake?


jz
 
I currently carry a 100 oz camel in the tree. In hot weather, company rule is 4 hours or empty camel, out of tree for rehab. Spring/Fall 6 - 8 hours or empty camel. I also carry protein bars. Oh my boss is an ex fire fighter and I am currently one so we treat camel like air pack, when empty you take hour rehab. NFPA guidelines.
 

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