City oversight

I know where you're coming from Jeff. I feel the same way about people being told what they can do on their own private property. But we are restricted in so many other ways than just trees. I mean, I cant even beat my kids anymore. :sorprendido3: Kidding.

Originally I thought, "Well who will care if I take this tree down? It's not like the city will be around here today while I'm working." Well let me tell you, a nosey neighbor will call the city in a skinny minute. Unfortunately, many times they're looking for a reason to get at their neighbor.

As far as the crabapple and Tree of Heaven, the majority of the cities have a list that are excluded from needing permit. Many have no protection on Sweet gum, Pines, or Popcorn trees (Chinese tallow) regardless of diameter. Others trees as well.
And as an arborist, it helps business because when a person gets denied a permit, we usually get paid for our credentials by writing a professional letter stating why the tree needs to be removed. Or we choose another client that doesn't want to take down nice trees :)

Anyway, I feel you brother, but I guess our rights only go so far.
 
Went to court once for this. First year in business and I didn't know the rules. Neighbor called in, and the homeowner and I both got a court date notice with $1200 fines apiece in the mail.

I felt it was my fault for misleading the client, so in court when it was my turn to speak I told the judge that I accept full responsibility because I told the customer I didn't think we needed a permit for the two trees. Judge said that was commendable and asked what I thought the punishment should be. My answer was to plant a couple of trees that better fit the area.
He agreed .

No fine for customer or me. And the great thing, I already had a couple of trees in pots that fit the bill. I'm a chronic seedling thief. I always find sprouting seeds under trees I like and try to grow them. And if a client wants a small tree removed and it's doable, I'll transplant it.

The best part about the whole thing is I met the City Arborist in court, he respected the way it was handled, and learned that I too love trees. There have been times since then where an emergency removal was needed, I called him, sent pics, and he gave me verbal approval.

Disclaimer: Results may not be typical :nocausagracia:
 
skew said:
It will take me several posts to get this all on the table because every time my wife hears this keyboard she hands me the baby.
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You have no idea how hard I laughed at that. Your wife should call mine. Better yet, call me I'll give you some tips. :)
 
skew said:
Well this story starts long before this conflict. It will take me several posts to get this all on the table because every time my wife hears this keyboard she hands me the baby. The town where I live does have a tree ordinance. It is quite general in nature, mostly consisting of advisory statements. Until recently none of the language had anything about tree removal. My history with the town: the longest running" Licensed Tree Trimmer" in town. 23rd year this year.
The city arborist and I have beef going back a few years which I will try to explain in brief. At a certain point a few years ago it became obvious to me that the city guy was using a contractor that had no workman's comp and quite a few employees. After years of wrangling back and forth with him over his choice of sub standard contractors I decided to leap the chain of command and go to the director of parks and rec and then to the city manager when that got me no satisfaction. Nothing eve came of it and ultimately after speaking to a city councilor she told me mistakes where made and they will try to do better. Hardly satisfactory in my estimation.
My next beef with the city guy: He has a test that he gives to people and then they are proclaimed "city certified". We ass many of you isa certs and bcma's know that aint allowed. He fought me on the issue and I ultimately went to ISA. The problem is ongoing. Another problem that I have with this guy is that he goes out onto peoples private property and does consultation sometimes with bad advice. I feel his domain is the city trees and his crew not in people's back yards. He is and ISAcert arb -which he only got a couple of years ago after 30 or so years on staff.
He will let people come in and take his test with these people having no intention of becoming licensed but they then can call themselves "city certified". Last summer some clients were building a new home on an urban lot maxxing out the lot space/size of home. Their design called for a Siberian Elm to be removed that was in a planting strip right in front of where the garage door was going to go. My opinion of the tree: It had been topped a few times going back over 30 years. The trunk split into four main trunks at about eight feet off of the ground. All were tight crotches with oozy slime flux coming out. The leaders were each over fifty feet long. I had no problem recommending removal due to the structure of the tree, the type of tree and the construction damage and loss of root area that was going to happen. This tree , along with a line of others near it had barely been maintained -mostly gone through with and air pruner - taking stuff that was less than 2". This tree was one of the first in town that required a review by the board of parks and forestry here. The board decided against the city guy's advice to let the homeowner take down the tree. Additionally another arborist was called to consult and he agreed with me. Ok that sort of sets the stage for the brewing conflict- next chapter- retrenchment pruning of Siberian Elm Trees
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Sounds sketchy. But I do my best to make friends with the powers that be. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. But, you also have to stick to your guns too when it matters. Maybe you should apply for the city arb position. :)

Good luck. Curious to hear the rest.
 
No help likely from ISA--they did not trademark the word 'certified'. http://www.isa-arbor.com/certification/resources/cert_Trademark_BrandingGuide.pdf

When you start your run for Council, buzzers will donate!

What's the worst thing that can happen after massive crown loss and big wounds on a Siberian elm? Massive rot and future breakage, in a worst case scenario. But if it's actually 'retrenchment pruning', which rarely involves >4" cuts, that won't happen.

I had input from a city guy about quality of cuts,
"I am concerned that climbing access to certain areas will be limited due to the lack of a centrally located tie-in point and the wide spread structure of the tree. I would like to ensure good positioning so the best cuts possible can be made."
but this sorted it:
"All cuts can be accessed with a pole saw. Cuts made with a pole saw will not be perfectly aligned, but they will be on young enough wood that they will not compromise future structure. Bigger cuts that are ideally aligned would not be better cuts, as they are likely to decay and compromise tree structure."
 
Skew, while there may be some truth to your assertion about community wealth and tree laws. I've found it has less to do with protecting scenery and more about protecting the asset. Some communities only protect trees through storm water management policies. Oft times it's the wealthy that will flaunt the laws and do as they please. Best example near me is the HO in either Alpine or Closter, NJ who cut down a huge swath of mature trees outside of his own property for who knows what reason. He could well afford the fines and just looked at it as a cost of getting what he wanted.

Your situation is not about the laws but the person in the position of power. Good on you for pursuing this and getting him, hopefully, terminated.
 
Skew, I'll try to give you my take on the city side of things. I am in no way trying to justify the treatment you have recieved, just the opposite, I am on your side in this case. Mark C. take note, I'm about to wax poetic... I think.

Most tree ordinances are put into place by well meaning people who want to make the community a better place to live and work. A place that will draw people and business/industry so that the community thrives. Something we all want. Unfortuately those ordinances don't administer themselves so staff are needed to to do that. There are usually two departments where the city arborist finds his home, arks and rec or public works. Personally, I prefer to see the arborist in the public works area for several reasons. Any good tree ordinance will undergo periodoc review and updating to keep pace with changing community views and standards. The city I currently work for did this in 2002 and has included to tree ondinance into a Unified Development Ordinance that encompasses all planning, engineering, inspection and codes departments as well as urban forestry. This enables minor tweaking to be easily accomplished with relative ease, although the council still has the final say. The 2002 revamp established the requirement for all new commercial AND residential development to provide a tree protection and replacement plan as a art of the development plan. This plan is to be included with the civil site engineering drawings and is reviewed, commented on and final plans approved before any dirt is turned. It took a bit on PR get get the local developers and grading contractors on board but it has been done. This is the main part of my job along with the enforcement site periodic and final inspections and other duties. As with your city, mine also requires tree service businesses to either have an ISA Certified Arborist on staff or pass a city administered test before they can even obtain a business license. This test is administered by me and was developed directly from the CA study materials using the study and sample questions. I am a sworn enforcement officer and I can issue citations for any violation of the tree ordinance and business license ordinance, or in the case of development projects, shut down all operations until they come into compliance. In eleven years I have shut down only one development project for non-compliance. There are a number of jack leg tree services that are unlicensed that are operating usually on weekends that occasionally I am able to cite. My view is the anyone presenting themselves as a business and operating as such must assume the responsibility of complying with all local requirements for business licensing. When I catch one of these jack legs, they are cited, no mercy, and must appear in court. I will with a first time offender, set a long court date so that they can have at least one opportuntiy to take the city test. For repeat offenders, a short court date is set. Even at that they still may be able to take the test since there are only two day a month for our environmental court.

On the develoment side, my attitude is, these projects do not put any revenue into the city until the businesses are open and turning a profit. Since I don't get paid if the city doesn't have revenue coming in, it behooves me to do all I can to help that contractor get his project finished so that the revenues start coming in. When I do this, everybody wins at least in theory. Usually the council has other ideas for the revenue besides my paycheck.

Regarding your comment about the city arborist doing consulting on private property, my opinion is that it is unprofessional while on the city clock. It may even be illegal, at least in some states. Thats a question for someone else to answer, not me. In my position, I am one of 4 or 5 CA's in the city and the only one with real arboricultural experience. The others just managed to pass the test. As such, I get a lot of calls for consulting type work which I do as a side business which is properly licensed. I also do limited preservation work as well. There are no private companies locally with CA's, not do they do any of the type of work I do so I'm not attempting to be in direct competition with them. When I get these types of calls on my city phone, I stop the conversation and have the caller contact me on my personal phone and wait til I am off the city clock to contact the person. My supervisors and department heads know I do this tye of work and have not had any issue with it.

Bottom line is my job is to serve the citizens as best I can to manage and enforce the ordinances they have determined to be important to the wellbeing of the community and to make my knowledge and experience available to accomplish that goal.

My opinion of the guy you have to deal with is that the guy is on a power trip and needs to retire or be fired. I'm not sure that running for council would be your best move. There are a ton of headaches involved there that you may not like.
 
Good point about should v. shall.

pole saw OR hand saw; goes without saying. I consulted with him in response to his concern. He supervised the contract; gotta talk to him! Better to cooperate than fight; that's one policy. fighting backfires more often than not ime.

Orcas, Free Willy, okaayyyy; relevance???...re >4" cuts, both the British and German standards advise reconsidering, on any species, but that's a 'should'. ;) You know your trees, but careful what you wish for re the city staffer--if he goes, you could get worse!
 
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