Chainsaw protection

macswan

Been here a while
Time to show my ignorance again. What will class 1 chainswa protection actually stop? 20 mm a second, how fast is that? I plan on looking in a saw manual today, but figured I'd ask the community.
 
That's a good question, I hadn't realized it was quantifiable.

I always thought the chaps were just to LOOK safer, THINK safer, and hopefully ACT safer. In the event of contact with a spinning chain they are there to REDUCE the potential for serious injury.

I have seen chaps do their job and believe me, the wearer is always happy he had them on.

20mm/sec. seems pretty slow to me, when you consider the saw chain is directly connected to a crankshaft spinning at 13,000 rpm. I'm just speculating so it would be cool to see the real numbers of chain speed/torque vs. stopping power of the material.
 
I don't know that speed of the chain can be used specifically to rate them. It seems to me there would be a factor of how much momentum was involved with the chain.

I think they are best viewed as an extra milisecond to take your finger off the throttle. I have cut right on through several pairs of old chaps in demonstration. If you are on the throttle, they ain't stoppin much.
 
Kevlar is pulled into the sprocket and the saw stops due to being jammed as far as I've seen in demos. You can still receive a gash but it saves you from a clean cut.

"I have cut right on through several pairs of old chaps in demonstration." Fireaxe, is that worded right? Right through the chaps. The fibers didn't stop the saw?
 
Barely slowed it down. Full chisel, sharp as it gets, MS460, 18" bar. I didn't get off the throttle. The chaps were tight on the log. It did stop a 260 with full chisel. The important part is not getting off the throttle after hitting it at full speed.

I am prone to show the staff extreme exaggerations of stuff to make a point.

I have that particular safety meeting coming up and a few shot pairs of chaps. I will make a video of the demo. Can videos be posted here without the help of youtube? I seriously do not wish to make that goofiness available outside of a professional environment.

I had thought they were rated based on the maximum displacement of the saw???
 
Class Max chain speed
0 16 metres per second (36 mph) (3150 feet per minute)
1 20 metres per second (45 mph) (3937 feet per minute)
2 24 metres per second (54 mph) (4724 feet per minute)
3 28 metres per second (63 mph) (5512 feet per minute)

NOTE: it's 20 m/sec not mm/sec which is the short form for millimeters/sec.

These are CE standards. The American standards are slightly lower around 3000ft/min.

Further note chaps and pants are described as "cut resistant" not cut proof. As fireaxe states they are not designed to stop a saw at full throttle. The premise is that the operator would be releasing the throttle and the speed therefore dropping.

Below I took the liberty to attach the OSHA reg for wearing protection. Of particular interest is the exception. In the US it is interpreted to mean climbers don't have to wear chainsaw protection. There is a burden placed on the employer to demonstrate a greater hazard by wearing them.


In the event of an accident, I feel, OSHA would be looking at the employer to come up with justification for the climber to be without leg protection.


1910.266(d)(1)(iv)

The employer shall provide, at no cost to the employee, and assure that each employee who operates a chain saw wears leg protection constructed with cut-resistant material, such as ballistic nylon. The leg protection shall cover the full length of the thigh to the top of the boot on each leg to protect against contact with a moving chain saw. Exception: This requirement does not apply when an employee is working as a climber if the employer demonstrates that a greater hazard is posed by wearing leg protection in the particular situation, or when an employee is working from a vehicular mounted elevating and rotating work platform meeting the requirements of 29 CFR 1910.68.
 
[ QUOTE ]
That's a good question, I hadn't realized it was quantifiable.

I always thought the chaps were just to LOOK safer, THINK safer, and hopefully ACT safer. In the event of contact with a spinning chain they are there to REDUCE the potential for serious injury.

I have seen chaps do their job and believe me, the wearer is always happy he had them on.

20mm/sec. seems pretty slow to me, when you consider the saw chain is directly connected to a crankshaft spinning at 13,000 rpm. I'm just speculating so it would be cool to see the real numbers of chain speed/torque vs. stopping power of the material.

[/ QUOTE ]

Chaps are specifically designed to deliver an over abundance of drive system entangling synthetic material to clog a chainsaw's drive system quickly. That abundance of tangling fabric is why chaps are so dang heavy.

My ergonomic carbon fiber motoX leg braces are somewhat chainsaw resistant too, though not in the same manner of ourse. But combined, though quite heavy, makes for some degree of confidence in withstanding handsaw knicks a bit.

jomoco
grin.gif
 
Chaps are specifically designed to deliver an over abundance of drive system entangling synthetic material to clog a chainsaw's drive system quickly. That abundance of tangling fabric is why chaps are so dang heavy.

Jomoco, Are you mistaking chaps from proper chainsaw pants with fibres? I have see chaps without fibres. I dont wear chaps, just pants. I thought chaps stop a chain and give some time to re-act, where as, chainsaw 'pants' pull the fibres out and bind the chain, also with time to re-act, bearing in mind nothing is saw proof, just re-action time.
Mind you, the femeral* artery, is hardly protected, on chaps or full on saw pants. THE most important part of the leg to avoid cutting IMO. Is there a pant/chap out there that really protects this?

This requirement does not apply when an employee is working as a climber if the employer demonstrates that a greater hazard is posed by wearing leg protection in the particular situation, or when an employee is working from a vehicular mounted elevating and rotating work platform meeting the requirements of 29 CFR 1910.68.

Please elaborate? I dont understand how this could add potential danger? If moving parts were to snag such material?
 
I'm a climber who refuses to wear typical chainsaw chaps in a tree precisely because the danger of entanglement exceeds the danger of me cutting myself in the leg with a chainsaw, which I've never done.

However I was in the vicinity of a boneheaded muscle bound 230 lb groundman cutting green logs into firewood wearing shorts, using an 044 magnum. And while I didn't witness the kickback and injury myself, when I arrived a minute later, he had both hands trying to hold his upper inner thigh together, and failing as the puddle of bood he stood in got larger with each beat of his big macho heart.

I unclipped two speedline loops and biners off my saddle, girthed the loops together and used them as a tourniquet above the gaping 6 inch wound, using one of the biners as a twist stick, I kept twisting even as he screamed in pain and pounded on my back, and the rest of the groundies jumped in and held him tightly as I kept twisting until the spurting blood stopped.

It took 3 groundies along with me holding the biner tight to get magilla gorilla into the passenger seat of my tooltruck, a tiny toy4x4. Magilla was still conscious and howling when I slapped him hard and told him to hold the damn biner tight against his leg or bleed to death, and he complied.

I was less than a mile from Sharps Emergency hospital on Torrey Pines Rd in La Jolla. But as Murphy's law reared it's ugly head with a road closure of Torrey Pines Rd itself before me, Magilla passes out, let's go of the biner tourniquet as blood spurts again. Putting my truck in second gear, I reached over grabbed the biner and twisted it tight again with one hand twisting and the other driving, off road now and into the parking lots of the businesses and institutes next to Sharps Hospital. Busting though hedge barriers separating Sharps from its neighbors I finally arrive at the emergency entrance and start yelling for a guerney, which was brought to my passenger door quickly. Crawling out that side with my hand gripping the biner, I stayed with Magilla right into the operating room until a beg owned doctor approached me offering to hold the biner and take over. I released the biner to him, he lost his gloved grip a bit on it and blood flowed again as I left the room. Nurses and male orderlies plied me for info on the patient. but I walked straight back outside and into my truck to get it out of the ambulance lanes to emergency.

As I parked my truck out of the way and shut it off. I was overwhelmed by the relief of having succeeded in getting groundie to emergency alive. Then caught a glimpse of my bloodstained face in the rear view mirror, looked down at my own blood soaked arms hands and sleeves, the passenger floor and seat thick with congealing blood. I cried for a few minutes, gathered my whits about me, and went back into emergency to provide the details of the accident I knew.

Magilla lived. but only just barely escaped bleeding to death by cutting his femoral artery with an 044 magnum while wearing shorts like a macho idiot.

And yes, a pair of chainsaw chaps would have lessened the severity of the cut by a huge margin, since Magilla told me the kickback occurred when he rolled a log over and used his upper bar to cut a strap with the saw pointing down at the ground. Magilla never returned to tree work and says he's much happier to flip pizzas for a living downtown. It took repeated requests from me to finally get my nylon loops and biner back him months later, laundered of course.

Speedlines are way handy in this biz!

jomoco
 
Way to go Jomo. Your looking at becoming an author in your other life. Magilla did thank you for saving his life I hope. Thanks
 
Great story man. Glad you are a quick thinker. Staying calm in a situation like that isn't easy.

I don't always wear chaps when I'm working at my house. My girlfiend was my groundie this weekend at her parents house. Everytime she picked my saw up she would huff and puff and complain about me telling her to put those damn chaps on! She acts like I'm being an a$$hole but what she doesn't realize is I wouldn't be able to live with myself if she were to get injured or die from a saw accident.

I'm going to have her read your story. Thanks for sharing.
 
Yes, he did. Magilla was quite an intimidating character in those days before bald was cool.

He kept his head shiny new shaved, was built like Paul Bunyun, and had light blue arctic cold eyes that truly struggled to appear friendly in any light depending on his mood, which was highly confrontational in those days.

His best friend in those days was a 300 lb Marine without an ounce of fat on him, that also was a CA and demolition climber, highly respected in SoCal.

Magilla and his best friend were in reality great guys, though you had to know them well to fully appreciate that at times.

Cold eyes though.

jomoco
 
Chaps and pants are designed to do the same thing.

I agree with you Jomoco on chaps being inappropriate for climbing thus the pants I wear. End of the day, I'd wear the pants this way I'm always protected and not likely to incur an injury in the tree or on the ground.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Kevlar is pulled into the sprocket and the saw stops due to being jammed as far as I've seen in demos. You can still receive a gash but it saves you from a clean cut.

"I have cut right on through several pairs of old chaps in demonstration." Fireaxe, is that worded right? Right through the chaps. The fibers didn't stop the saw?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've done the same thing with "used" kevlar chaps and a Husky 372XP 24". Didn't slow the chain a bit. Cut completely through an 8" log.

Husky chaps with "warp knit nylon", complete opposite. Stopped the chain instantly. Drive sprocket, bar groove and bar tip were severely clogged with the nylon fibers. Took about 20 minutes to clean it all.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Wow, Jomoco, way to hold it together and get numbnuts to emerg. You made the difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Greensaw.

The incident with Magilla was my second exposure to massive artery damage in which stopping the blood flow was crucial to patient survival while in transport.

Happily not tree related though it was a manzanita stub that pierced my friend's motoX chest protector, lifted him off his bike iin a steep downhill section, puncturing his chest and lung, holding him off the ground like a scarecrow.

He too lived and thanked me for my efforts.

But both incidents cost me emotionally afterwards once the excitement and adrenaline wore off. Crying like a baby afterwards both times.

Must be that wussy PTSD syndrome huh?

jomoco
 

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