Certified vs. Not

I think it gives a great starting off point and the necessary CEU's every 3 years makes you stay somewhat up to date with what is going on and refreshing your thoughts on it.I took my CTE test in NJ this year and that test was a doozy.
My brother and I just had this conversation 2 days ago and he's not certified.I asked him if you get 3 quotes from 3 company's where all 3 salesman look professional for approximately the same price and one is CA who will you choose.He did not reply
 
TreeLogic said:
And incredible use (possible overuse? :)) of emojis. Kidding. Well said and well illustrated!!!
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No. I definitely could have used a couple more. :burlas:


Baja Mike said:
I think it gives a great starting off point and the necessary CEU's every 3 years makes you stay somewhat up to date with what is going on and refreshing your thoughts on it.I took my CTE test in NJ this year and that test was a doozy.
My brother and I just had this conversation 2 days ago and he's not certified.I asked him if you get 3 quotes from 3 company's where all 3 salesman look professional for approximately the same price and one is CA who will you choose.He did not reply
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Baja Mike, Tell your brother he should do the work himself...or get you to do it. ;)
 
Baja Mike said:
I think it gives a great starting off point and the necessary CEU's every 3 years makes you stay somewhat up to date with what is going on and refreshing your thoughts on it.I took my CTE test in NJ this year and that test was a doozy.
My brother and I just had this conversation 2 days ago and he's not certified.I asked him if you get 3 quotes from 3 company's where all 3 salesman look professional for approximately the same price and one is CA who will you choose.He did not reply
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So did you pass NJ CTE?
 
evo said:
The test was a joke... It goes both ways too. I've lost jobs because I wasn't certified (when I wasn't), and I've lost jobs because I'm certified... Around here people 'in the know' ask if you are an "Arborist," and they don't know what they are asking, or the difference between a Cert arborist, BMCA, or just some one who calls themselves one (rightly or not). All they know is that they are suppose to ask, but lost the details of why and what they are asking for..
I had an evaluation, where the client called me out for diagnosis, and after I figured it out and recommended some work they asked who can they get to do it. They assumed that since they called a certified Arborist, we are above doing pruning, soil work, and removals...
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Evo that is my worry about the BCMA. In my market the CA is becoming a more valued credential to the consumer. Will that hold true with BCMA? I think I'll have to work on the perception of that credential before it's valued.
I gotta be honest- the CA test was tough for me. I was 17/18 years old and failed it. Retested the next year and got an 85%, which only sucked because my boss said he'd give me a paid day off if I beat his score of 87%.
 
Aw, 2% off from a day off; so close!
Good point that you will have to work on the perception of that BCMA credential before it's valued.
I started on that after I got BCMA 10 years ago, with the purpose of educating my market. Now it works well, and I won't have to bother with the TRAQ $y$tem.:reloco:
 
Stihlmadd said:
Hack - doesn't give a flying fuck about the customer the industry or more importantly the tree's that will provide for many more years of business not only for them but others in the same line of work.

Hack - not a statement on the quality of cuts but the state of mind of the cutter.
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Needed a like very much button for this one. (y)
 
I have been an "Arborist" for 17 years. I am not certified but can tell you that as you age in this business you will wish that you were. Being certified opens up opportunities for employment that do not exist without it. I will be taking the exam in February so wish me luck!
 
John_KAYS said:
It's amazing how much stuff you have to know to take the certification exam, but how basic the stuff actually is when you get down to it. Just imagine if an arborist didn't know any of the information on the exam!

At least the certification gives you a benchmark, otherwise you go off reputation alone.

I believe reputation is more important than the certification, but if you don't have a reputation:robotbox: the certification is going to do a lot.

If you take two arborists, one certified:numberone: and one that is not:tanguero:, the one that is certified is not necessarily a better arborist:endesacuerdo:...that individual's knowledge has been measured by a standardized test:pcmala:, while the other has been measured by their reputation alone:rock:. The reputation is what measures whether the arborist is trustworthy:cool:, reliable:sisi:, knowledgable:estudioso:, skilled:guitarra:, etc, or not:(!

The only addition I will make is that the reputation is often built off a client base that has no clue how to take care of trees, so who can say that reputation accurately measures whether that sweet talking arborist knows anything about pruning etc. The certification measures your knowledge of actual arboriculture. So, I guess you can say the certification gives you a more accurate picture of the arborists base for that knowledge...but might not demonstrate the way in which they use or retain that knowledge.

For the longest time I didn't think the certification was necessary!

This is all coming from someone who will be passing the exam on Saturday! :bailando:
...don't worry I have a great reputation too!
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I'm Certified! :numberone:

John L. Cole: ISA Certified Arborist®
 
AW4130 said:
I have a question. Well, multiple questions. What specifically is considered a "hack"? Does a good arborist NEED to be a CA? Or is this just an opinion? Are there good arbos out there that are not CA's? Are there bad arbos out there that are? Does being, working, conducting, studying all material related to, considering and calling yourself an arborist require cert? Just trying to hear some thoughts from others on these ponderings in my head haha. :confused:
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In my opinion, a true arborist is someone that can balance what is right for the tree and the client, based entirely on a solid arborcultural understanding.

Industry standards change as information is gathered and interpreted. Flush cuts used to be the norm, and Shigo changed all that. Stub cuts are considered bad, but what if you're doing so in an effort to protect the corm from storm damage and aiming to rebuild a branch over time? Someone might think you're a hack for leaving a stub, but not if you can back it up with solid knowledge.

The best teacher on the planet is nature, itself. Pay attention to that, get photo references, and express this information to your clients when discussing options. Monitor your work over time and sell repeat visits as necessary.

This is all the mark of a good arborist.

Your knowledge and work results will build your reputation, not just a badge worn over poor ethics.

That being said, the badge will show you are on top of your game, and cannot hurt to have. The ISA is a tool for you to use, not a free ride to fortune. That comes from your efforts alone.

"Be the ball, Danny. Be the ball."
 
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oceans said:
In my opinion, a true arborist is someone that can balance what is right for the tree and the client, based entirely on a solid arborcultural understanding.

Industry standards change as information is gathered and interpreted. Flush cuts used to be the norm, and Shigo changed all that. Stub cuts are considered bad, but what if you're doing so in an effort to protect the corm from storm damage and aiming to rebuild a branch over time? Someone might think you're a hack for leaving a stub, but not if you can back it up with solid knowledge.

The best teacher on the planet is nature, itself. Pay attention to that, get photo references, and express this information to your clients when discussing options. Monitor your work over time and sell repeat visits as necessary. This is the mark of a good arborist.

Your knowledge and work results will build your reputation, not just a badge worn over poor ethics.

That being said, the badge will show you are on top of your game, and cannot hurt to have. The ISA is a tool for you to use, not a free ride to fortune. That comes from your efforts alone.

"Be the ball, Danny. Be the ball."
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You break it down oceans! Well played man!
 
Treetopflyer said:
You break it down oceans! Well played man!
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Thanks, man. I have to say that a lot of my opinion is based on working around tree services that are straight up businesses. I like to go to sleep at night knowing that I live and work by my values, and those are not selfish in nature. People pick up on this. The clients that do are your clients for life, and the same clients that build your rep and business through word of mouth.
 
oceans said:
Thanks, man. I have to say that a lot of my opinion is based on working around tree services that are straight up businesses. I like to go to sleep at night knowing that I live and work by my values, and those are not selfish in nature. People pick up on this. The clients that do are your clients for life, and the same clients that build your rep and business through word of mouth.
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I can relate in a positive way. Word of mouth is like having a million in the bank.
 
Even though I had tried to be up to date with my knowledge and study before I decided to get certified, I definitely feel like a better arborist now that I put the energy into the certification. I am more well rounded now having studied areas that weren't immediately relevant to what I do daily...Like urban forestry etc. But now, at this state, I feel like I have the essentials down - It doesn't stop there. I look forward to learning and learning...and teaching and teaching. I feel better able to approach my clients from a point of authority now that I have been measured in my knowledge! It feels good to be certified....I would recommend it if you are serious about this profession.

Thanks everyone for the support.
 
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