Breakaway lanyards

Bungee cords unless massive are low spring rate. What I was hinting at was take your tested nylon loop "link" and place the elastomer blob inside spreading the loop - load goes on straightens nylon squishes blob - voila shock absorber. Hollow braid is 3d version.

looked up caritools - small 5 kg "load"(?) large 15 kg puts them in the ballpark
 
place the elastomer blob inside spreading the loop . . . .
Great idea Bart.

What is the thinking behind ANSI's 500 lb. break-away lanyard strength? How was that figure determined? Is the 500 lb. a static pull test? What is the standard trying to protect?
 
I asked Gemini to calculate spring rate and stretch distance to stop a 10 LB weight dropped 5 Ft.
Answer: stretch distance 12.59 inches with a spring rate of 1.52 Lb/in.

If the weight were braked with a 60 LB constant force at what distance would it stop.
Answer: 9.44 inches

Attached is Gemini's calculation
 

Attachments

Google comes up with z359 for me but no 500 lbs obvious. What ansii standard number are you referring to?

The shock absorbing feature(s) just round down the spike when the catch is made. person fall arrest or saw oops
 
Lanyards keep things from getting away. But sometimes we want them to get away so a fuse is built in.

I think these are the lanyards I use:

PPE work positioning and sometimes short, second rope
Handsaw
SAKA
Neck lanyard to raise the Uni as my chest component
Chainsaw
Knife and scissors
Allen wrench for saddle shackles

Some are homemade others commercially made.

If you choose a break away lanyard where do you put the fuse?

At the tool
At the saddle
Hi Tom
Sorry to be a "party pooper"to the advocates but for attaching items to the harness the "tear away" is a banned link on my sites. The near misses created by them must also be considered. Responsable Persons (RP) need to make their own decisions on this for work safety including upskilling in other areas.
 
Google comes up with z359 for me but no 500 lbs obvious. What ansii standard number are you referring to?

ANSI came up somewhere in my reading of chainsaw lanyards. Sorry I cannot recall where. It is possible the standard does not exist since I have never seen the standard. Hearsay on forums can be misleading.

500 lb. is mentioned in these treebuzz threads:
https://www.treebuzz.com/forum/threads/chainsaw-lanyard-in-a-aerial-lift.42568/#post-642860
and in this thread
https://www.treebuzz.com/forum/threads/check-out-this-new-saw-lanyard-i-just-got.42158/#post-634975

Also Teufelburger sells a break-away lanyard with 2.0 - 1.8 KN breakaway (404 - 449 LB.)
https://www.treestuff.com/teufelberger-antishock-chainsaw-lanyard/
 
The shock absorbing feature(s) just round down the spike when the catch is made. person fall arrest or saw oops

I understand this.

The design criteria is maximum sustained load 60 Lb. and maximum impact load 60 Lb.
In operation, the shock absorbing link would stretch to stop the load but never exert more than 60 Lb. in doing so. If it did, the link should break.

By Gemini calculation, the 5 ft. drop of a 10 Lb. weight would require a link with a spring rate of 1.52 Lb./inch stretching a distance of 12.59 inches (short bungie cord). Or, a link utilizing a constant force spring exerting 60 Lbs. over a distance of 9.44 inches (long bungie cord)

The point being, it takes significant travel distance to stop the falling weight without exceeding what I consider an acceptable hanging load as explained in past post. Your idea of wrapping an elastomer with thread is very good and cleaver, but would need to deform 9.44 - 12.59 inches under a force or 60Lb. Bungie cord works same as your suggestion. The outer shell squeezes the inner core elastomer, like a Chinese finger grip.

The breakaway link should be a combination elastic bungie with a fuse of 60Lb.
 
Graeme and Tony are of the mind that breaking away a saw is a no-no and it seems the compromise ground for design is high breakaway force 300 to 500 lbs which still much under loads the 23 kN (or 17 kn saddle) so it would fire off in a really serious scenario but generally act non-breakaway. The various arguments apply saw coming back at you body injury etc that's a non-hard yes no situation/opinion.

For consideration - after a bungee absorbs 12.6" and is tensioned to 60 lbs with a 10 lb weight what happens next? Slingshot your (running?) saw back at you! Yikes. You need damped energy absorption like the thread tear-out in the Two Full Burger :) lanyard.

The two-keyrings parallel has the merit of no cordage cycles/wear degradation over time.

The force spike lessening from a soft anchor is substantial. I was duplicating spar -ve rig catching and the slippage of a fresh cow hitch at the rig tip cut the catch force spike in half. For your design it means that a static fuse will catch more practical dropped weight than one might expect.

I'm in the lower breakaway camp because if you're releasing a climber-body-snatcher sized piece and fubar occurs the piece is bigger and has more swat capability than the saw - if someone is in the drop zone in the first place. I know - luck is good and rigged piece not dropping anything while your saw goes down is a counter argument.

Bungee is pure elastomer until the casing travel runs out and then it's a hard stop spike like rope in parallel with the elastomer. There's a bit of fiber/motion/skid damping in there too and a bit of hysteresis and definite temperature dependence in the elastomer spring rate. (firing a big shot on a cold day)


As I think about it the only real saw snatcher I ever had was a dead poplar leader chunk maybe 18" dia IIRC long time ago! and my small caritool caught the MS260 20"bar on a non absorbing "rigid" saw lanyard. I remember the yank on my saddle. I wear saddle suspenders too but they attach center rear saddle which probably helped.
 
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I keep people out from under me or don't move about when they are.

I don't have people under me with a loose block/ sling while installing or removing, either.

People don't come under a piece being lowered until they need to be (can reach the shortie tag line or tree part).

$0.02
 
@Bart said, "Graeme and Tony are of the mind that breaking away a saw is a no-no"

And I agree with them. Preventing saw snatch while cutting limbs and wood is easily accomplished with training.
Your thinking is correct.

A hazard has been identified by some. Excluding the hazard from occurring is the best management practice.

Preventing its occurrence ought to generate discussion rather than assuming it is inevitable. Discussing the positions of the "deck chairs on the Titanic" seems less important to that of avoiding future icebergs.

I would be interested to know the frequency of occurrence for members in this group?
 
I agree that if chainsaw lanyards were not used then there would be no resulting accidents. By the same reasoning I can state that if vehicles were banned there would be no traffic accidents. And so goes the that wisdom on just about anything.

The point for discussion in this thread is, can a chainsaw lanyard be made that is safe or safer than those currently on than market.
 
Graeme and Tony are of the mind that breaking away a saw is a no-no and it seems the compromise ground for design is high breakaway force 300 to 500 lbs which still much under loads the 23 kN (or 17 kn saddle) so it would fire off in a really serious scenario but generally act non-breakaway. The various arguments apply saw coming back at you body injury etc that's a non-hard yes no situation/opinion.

For consideration - after a bungee absorbs 12.6" and is tensioned to 60 lbs with a 10 lb weight what happens next? Slingshot your (running?) saw back at you! Yikes. You need damped energy absorption like the thread tear-out in the Two Full Burger :) lanyard.

The two-keyrings parallel has the merit of no cordage cycles/wear degradation over time.

The force spike lessening from a soft anchor is substantial. I was duplicating spar -ve rig catching and the slippage of a fresh cow hitch at the rig tip cut the catch force spike in half. For your design it means that a static fuse will catch more practical dropped weight than one might expect.

I'm in the lower breakaway camp because if you're releasing a climber-body-snatcher sized piece and fubar occurs the piece is bigger and has more swat capability than the saw - if someone is in the drop zone in the first place. I know - luck is good and rigged piece not dropping anything while your saw goes down is a counter argument.

Bungee is pure elastomer until the casing travel runs out and then it's a hard stop spike like rope in parallel with the elastomer. There's a bit of fiber/motion/skid damping in there too and a bit of hysteresis and definite temperature dependence in the elastomer spring rate. (firing a big shot on a cold day)


As I think about it the only real saw snatcher I ever had was a dead poplar leader chunk maybe 18" dia IIRC long time ago! and my small caritool caught the MS260 20"bar on a non absorbing "rigid" saw lanyard. I remember the yank on my saddle. I wear saddle suspenders too but they attach center rear saddle which probably helped.

1729704428982.png

Two Full Burger lanyard link

The bungee energy absorber has design flaws. If rigidly attached the recoil distance should approximate the height of drop. The recoiling saw is likely to spin and rotate and could strike the climber's body, the sharp teeth of the chain uncontrolled.

A descent brake is what is really needed.

The cow hitch concept is an interesting possible energy absorber. What if the lanyard were made of wrapped cordage such that slippage would occur under load. Round boot laces which have roughened surfaces (Kiwi) come to mind. If the lanyard were to be exercised , then it would be manually reset back to its non-stretched position. An initial slip load needs to be built in somehow.

A breakaway link made of multiple upholstery thread strands can also be improved upon. It has obvious wear issues. Possible alternatives are split key rings or S hooks made of light gauge wire. Testing could discover a material size that would yield at 60 Lbs.
 
Two Full Burger lanyard link

The bungee energy absorber has design flaws...
Thanks for your reply "Camdo" however my comments to the thread were focused on:
- A higher level solution identifying "control measures" preventing the potential occurrence,
- Request for incidents or the frequency of them.

I remain interested for members to answer the question put. This would be an informative survey.

Risk Management is a logical process and it appears your solution remains focused on a premise that this event is inevitable. If it is inevitable, I say "don't perform that task".
 
I agree that if chainsaw lanyards were not used then there would be no resulting accidents. By the same reasoning I can state that if vehicles were banned there would be no traffic accidents. And so goes the that wisdom on just about anything.

The point for discussion in this thread is, can a chainsaw lanyard be made that is safe or safer than those currently on than market.

It sounds like you may have misinterpreted some of what has been said. No one is recommending not using a saw lanyard, just not a break-a-way lanyard. There really is no need to fear a strong static chainsaw lanyard.
 
Thanks for your reply "Camdo" however my comments to the thread were focused on:
- A higher level solution identifying "control measures" preventing the potential occurrence,
- Request for incidents or the frequency of them.

I remain interested for members to answer the question put. This would be an informative survey.

Risk Management is a logical process and it appears your solution remains focused on a premise that this event is inevitable. If it is inevitable, I say "don't perform that task".
Personally I have felt the saw being grabbed a few times in close to 15 years of climbing, but have never had the saw ripped out of my hands.
 

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