Breakaway lanyard

Relax buddy, I said you'd have to find another way, if you couldn't get access with a crane.

In 1800TREEEXPERT'S video if he had used a breakaway lanyard and the tree had failed under him. He would have taken an unacceptable swing into the tree he was tied into.

By unacceptable I mean he would have more than likely sustained concussion, compound fractures, internal organ damage or worse.

All I am trying to get across is that I dont believe that a breakaway lanyard is the right approach to solving a problem of this nature in climbing operations.
 
I use a short loop of slick line girth hitched to the dee ring where the snap connects. This way I can switch between sucure and break away mode easily. My system does have the drawback that Tom mentioned......that the snap would be dangerous flying around after after the string breaks under load.

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[ QUOTE ]
But you can't rule out it's place.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have ruled it out.

I wont be using this technique as I believe I have the intelligence to find a safer way to get the tree down, without resorting to the arbor ejector seat method.

I'll leave that to all you gung ho trigger happy heros.
smirk.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But you can't rule out it's place.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have ruled it out.

I wont be using this technique as I believe I have the intelligence to find a safer way to get the tree down, without resorting to the arbor ejector seat method.

I'll leave that to all you gung ho trigger happy heros.
smirk.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

You need to get the chip off your shoulder, grover.....I'm sure you realize whose companay you're in here....

Your opinions are fine, but when you continually produce these harsh statements, you show that you need to step back and consider what others think.

Tom, myself, and others, whose experience and abilities may well dwarf yours, have weighed in with our feelings, and you dump on us? Think about it...
 
I like to have a full "bag of tricks", I'll try most things before I pass judgement. Hey, I have a lanyard that Tom DQ'ed. Maybe I'll ziptie it ,take to a test machine to break it to see what happens, but I gotta get really bored first.
 
There has been one situation that I can recall in which I used the Non-snap side of my lanyard and tied a horse-knot to my D-ring. My feeling was that in case of emergency I could simply yank the tail and release myself. Like untieng your shoe-lace. A snap is very difficult to undo under tension where as a simple bow knot, I call it a horse knot because it is the knot used to tie up a horse can be untied quickly under tension. You use it for a horse for the same reason, if something spooks the horse and he freaks out, you want to be able to un tie him very quickly in case he gets hurt. This knot however would not break away unless you untied it which would be worthless if you where immediatly knocked out.

I didn't need to do anything of the kind thankfully but it was definitly reasuring that I had that option in that particular situation.

Grover, safety is about much more than dos and do nots. It has to be about analyzing and thinking through every situation. Your attitude in some ways reminds me of the line clearance companies here in Michigan which banned the use of split tails and cambium savers after someone was killed mis-using them. The result obviously is more dangerous as innovation is cut out of the picture. Innovation in itself is a risky business.
 
[ QUOTE ]

You need to get the chip off your shoulder, grover.....I'm sure you realize whose companay you're in here....

Your opinions are fine, but when you continually produce these harsh statements, you show that you need to step back and consider what others think.

Tom, myself, and others, whose experience and abilities may well dwarf yours, have weighed in with our feelings, and you dump on us? Think about it...

[/ QUOTE ]

Roger, I have just 10 years experience of being a professional production climber.

I have never professed once that I know it all. But I am as just at home and comfortable distmantling a 130ft Tulip growing over the back of the house as I am pruning the ornamental azaleas at the front of the property.

I respect you old timers for the things you have seen that I havent, God knows I still see and learn something new about this job every day.

But I have worked with guys with 35 years experience of treework whose work practices are shocking and unsafe.

I've stepped in a few times when things were looking unsafe or had the potential to go drastically wrong.

I have also worked with guys who have been climbing for 2/3 years who have highlighted a better option I never thought of when planning a job.

You can have 30 years of sh*t experience and rave on about how you've seen it all, but it doesn't mean sh*t to me.

I judge a treeclimber on his ability to recognise what exactly is involved in a job and how we are going to get the job done as safely and efficiently as possible.

I can spot from 100 yards away if a climber is switched on or not. Nobody really told me how to climb, I was thrown a Weaver and a three strand rope and shown how to tie a tautline.

After that I read books, talked to people, read forums,ISA and the old rec tree site forum Treeclimbing.com I practiced climbing after work and every weekend for 5 years until I knew exactly what the hell I was doing in the tree. ok this getting boring now, i'll shut up.

Sorry if i offended anyone.
 
[ QUOTE ]
You can have 30 years of sh*t experience and rave on about how you've seen it all, but it doesn't mean sh*t to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's called respect, you need to get some.
This is a place for professional people that act like professionals in public.
 
This whole thread came about due to the video that 1800treeexpert submitted, and the arguements against break away lanyards seemed to be based solely on this video. There was a great deal of discussion about using 2 ropes tied into 2 different trees or the use of a highline along with supporting the tree with guy ropes. If the potentail swing can be limited, then a break-away lanyard seems to be a good idea. While certainly if the tree does not hafe to be climbed, then don't, unfortunately this does not always happen.
I'm sure I will and my kids will one day will be thankful for the advice those 30 years exp. have given me.

Thanks
WP
 
[ QUOTE ]
"Now the woods will never tell
What sleeps beneath the trees
Or what's buried neath a rock
Or hiding in the leaves.

Tom Waites, Murder in the Red Barn(Bone Machine)

[/ QUOTE ]

Tom Waits
 
WELL ANYWAY. This turned into an interesting thread didn't it? I have weeded through the BS and arguments and made my own decision about the subject. I started the thread just shopping for information. Didn't have an opinion on the video. I kind of liked it and was happy to have learned from others impressions of it. As with this, thank you all for your constructive input, unfortunately I am too shell shocked to post what i'm gonna do.
 
In some of the big eucs there were many times where i lanyard- ed in to a too-small branch and had a good TIP. always wanted the little branch to go before i went with the big one it was attached too. i would sometimes even nick the small branch to make sure it would break where i wanted it too... this was always i conjunction with a secure main TIP.

peace,
mk
 
[ QUOTE ]
hey tree co, have you been working on a timber frame? That book is a great intructional. Jack Sobon is quite the man.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've had the book for a year or so and it is a great book. I'm thinking about getting a small band saw mill and just reading up on building techniques. Thanks for asking.
 
I like Tom's suggestion for a break away lanyard in certain situations. The "death whip" thing presents an interesting hazard though. Instead of an attatchment between the D-ring and the lanyard snap that would break, whipping the snap around the stem, what about tying the snap to the lanyard with a knot you know will fail? This should leave the snap clipped safely to the D.

What would be a good knot for this?
 
you could put the breakaway link on the other side where you have your prussic. That would be a little more time consumingm but no hardware really.
Its funny, when I was in that situation, I tied that quick release knot, It for some reason didn
It didn't even occur to me to just untie my stopper knot allowing me to slide out my prussic. duh.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But you can't rule out it's place.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have ruled it out.

I wont be using this technique as I believe I have the intelligence to find a safer way to get the tree down, without resorting to the arbor ejector seat method.

I'll leave that to all you gung ho trigger happy heros.
smirk.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

You need to get the chip off your shoulder, grover.....I'm sure you realize whose companay you're in here....

Your opinions are fine, but when you continually produce these harsh statements, you show that you need to step back and consider what others think.

Tom, myself, and others, whose experience and abilities may well dwarf yours, have weighed in with our feelings, and you dump on us? Think about it...

[/ QUOTE ]
Well said Roger! Some her need to come down from their high horse and consider the idea that they might not know everything.
smirk.gif
 
As a sailor with thousands of ocean racing miles I have seen the snap shackle come undone on several occasions when hoisting a spinnaker.It is very easy for the string release to get snaged and open the snap. This piece of hardware was designed to be released UNDER LOAD not really very safe for climbing. A few years ago a pro wrestler was being lowered into the ring and when he opened up his cape the friction of it on the release string caused the snap to QUICK release sending him to his death. The sailor snap shackle is not designed for climbing and no sailor worth his weight in salt would ever use it to asscend a mast. Please do risk your life by using a sailor snap shackle.

Climb safe,
Doug
 
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