Backing up the back up?

[No_Bivy]

Are all ascenders now required to be backed up? Does a tibloc above it meet the specs? I read something about 22KN slings not being kosher. The math says they are just a little shy of the 5000lb rule. I have never heard of anyone breaking one of these. Seems like your pelvis might implode before the sling broke. Or better yet, the crotch at the top of the tree your tied into would probably fail. I know this pisses off number junkies, sorry.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

As far as I know, and I hope that others chime in, the only time that there is a requirement for mechanical ascenders to be backed up is when they're used as a floating false crotch in competition.

Backing up ascenders makes good sense to me. There are some very simple tools to use that adds a lot of security. When ascending the tree there is a chance that the ascender can get bumped or pushed through brush.

You're right 22kN comes to about 4,950# depending on how you round numbers. I've known people who do not allow 22kN gear at comps or in the workplace. The Z says 5,000# not 4,950#.

 

[No_Bivy]

Will a Tibloc above the ascender count as a back-up? There is no load rating on them.

 

[trees4est]

This is from the latest ITCC rules:
2.2.26 Contestants who utilize a mechanical ascender, as a part of a static climbing system, must also include a system of backup to protect against an ascender malfunction. Mechanical ascenders, on a static line, can be backed up with another ascender on the same line or a pliable Prusik cord that is placed above the mechanical ascender and on the same line as the ascender. If a double-line static climbing system is used, both sides of the static line must be backed up independently. Prusik cordage must meet the requirements of 2.2.21 and must be able to immediately grip and hold the line and support the contestant’s weight should an ascender fail. All mechanical ascender-climbing systems are subject to the Special Advisor’s prior approval. (2006)
2.2.27 Contestants may work from a static ascending line provided that a separate, approved overhead climbing system is anchored to the static ascending line. Fall-protection anchoring systems must include a stopper knot or hitch on the static line below the anchoring system. Techniques for working from a static line with an anchoring system attached to the static line must be demonstrated prior to use and during gear inspection, and must have prior approval of the Special Advisor. (2006)

 

[No_Bivy]

So ask permission on this one instead of forgiveness? Tibloc could be considered an additional ascender?

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Tibloc would work if you use it on the correct rope with the correct biner. I know that the T needs to have the right biner.

I bought a T but it chewed up my rope SO bad that I don't use it anymore. My cats have done less damage to their scratching post...or their favorite furniture

 

[BigJon]

I like backing my petzl handled ascender with a Yates rocker. It works pretty smooth. I a separate webbing and biner with the rocker over the petzl.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

I attach my Rocker low, to my saddle bridge. This seperates the two attachments. The chance of something happening to both of them when they're 20 plus inches apart is in my favor.

 

[No_Bivy]

Maybe I am mis-interpreting the rule but it looks like even a footlock into the tree with ascenders require a back-up. I'm not refering to a weapon type system where you stop and begin to work off your ascenders. I guess a prussik may be a simpler option,, with no back up.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

During the discussions at the ITCC ascent any ascending system becomes "...a part of a static climbing system" when the climber moves off from vertical a certain distance or the ascent rope is deflected from vertical. This is an easy way to define the transition from ascent to working system.

When I judge and see a climber using some sort of back up while ascending I give an extra point to give the climber a reward for working a bit safer. There is no deduction if they don't use a backup though.

 

[stevebullman]

regarding the tibloc, i brought the subject of it damaging rope up with the guy that runs my local rock climbing store.
his opinion was that it did less damage to rope than a camming ascender due to the fact that it doesnt crush the core where the strength is. i suppose this is only relevant to kermantle rope though

 

[Tom Dunlap]

After using the T for a while it picked a rope so bad that I decided to retire it. I'll bet that the rope is still strong enough. The fuzzy bits would effect how the other ascenders went up the rope. There's always other uses for retired ropes.