back-guying decayed leaner for removal
- Thread starter Kathy_Holzer
- Start date
- Location
- Seattle WA
- Location
- Seattle WA
- Location
- Seattle WA
- Location
- Seattle WA
- Location
- Seattle WA
Mangoes
Participating member
- Location
- Greater Toronto Area
Kathy,
I'd have no problem climbing and rigging off of that tree from what I can see. The biggest factor being a very sound Static Relevant Zone as indicated by the lean of the trunk. A comprimised SRZ would provide a straight trunk, this trunk hints quite heavily that it has always grown this way.
[image] http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/images/upload/111679-holzeroak2.bmp [/image]
I'm not saying discard your intuition and force/risk managment strategies, absurd to do so from 5000km away. But from what I can see, a certain confidence can be gained.
Best of luck.....wish I could come and play.
Kevin
I'd have no problem climbing and rigging off of that tree from what I can see. The biggest factor being a very sound Static Relevant Zone as indicated by the lean of the trunk. A comprimised SRZ would provide a straight trunk, this trunk hints quite heavily that it has always grown this way.
[image] http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/images/upload/111679-holzeroak2.bmp [/image]
I'm not saying discard your intuition and force/risk managment strategies, absurd to do so from 5000km away. But from what I can see, a certain confidence can be gained.
Best of luck.....wish I could come and play.
Kevin
- Location
- Canada
I agree with Mangoes. I think I would just climb it (also 5000 Km away so its easy to say that). No close up pictures of the stump area though that might change my mind.
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
I agree that the lean is probably no factor in terms of climbing that tree, but the root condition is. I didn't go back and look but I think the original post mentions a compromised root system.
I doubt that a climber's weight would tip the balance but it's worth being extra safe on a dead or dying tree... too much you can't see or predict.
I would probably climb it if I could establish that the root system was sound, but if the roots are rotting below the surface I would be looking for alternatives.
I doubt that a climber's weight would tip the balance but it's worth being extra safe on a dead or dying tree... too much you can't see or predict.
I would probably climb it if I could establish that the root system was sound, but if the roots are rotting below the surface I would be looking for alternatives.
- Location
- Seattle WA
thanks for the replies. some of you seem to have missed the premise of the thread i think. this tree was declared by a consulting arborist a moderate to high risk of complete failure due to signs of advanced root decay. i wouldn't hesitate to climb and rig it otherwise either. there is mycelial matting at the base and stained wood and according to the report the tree "is compromised by armillaria root rot". hence the title of the thread. i wouldn't have thought to back-guy it if the tree were sound.
the bend in the trunk information is interesting. my thought was that if there were advanced decay (no resistograph was done - a mistake i think), the stiffness of the wood might be compromised in such a way as to create that 4 ft section with a dramatically increased bend which i mentioned earlier. i don't know enough about white rot/brown rot and cellulose lignin and all that to say - just my thought on seeing the trunk. but even if you're right that the trunk has had this lean for a long time - it's still anchored by roots that are under seige by fungus. this unknown is what has me sketched out, not the fact of the lean (which will just make things more interesting and physically awkward in terms of positioning). i don't know how to quantify that risk, and so in the absence of data i worry.
we'll find out on tuesday i guess..
the bend in the trunk information is interesting. my thought was that if there were advanced decay (no resistograph was done - a mistake i think), the stiffness of the wood might be compromised in such a way as to create that 4 ft section with a dramatically increased bend which i mentioned earlier. i don't know enough about white rot/brown rot and cellulose lignin and all that to say - just my thought on seeing the trunk. but even if you're right that the trunk has had this lean for a long time - it's still anchored by roots that are under seige by fungus. this unknown is what has me sketched out, not the fact of the lean (which will just make things more interesting and physically awkward in terms of positioning). i don't know how to quantify that risk, and so in the absence of data i worry.
we'll find out on tuesday i guess..
RogerM
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Louisville,KY USA
Stick to your plan. I can wait to here about it after your done. Our ground around here is completely saturated... one big squishy mess. That always makes me think about tree failure regardless of how healthy the roots are. particularly heavy leaners.
- Location
- Venice, FL
With so much weighing on the deodar (literally) are you confident in its root system not being compromised by armillaria?
I don't know enough about it, unfortunately. I know it can spread through the root systems grafted together. But not sure if the tree would show definitive signs in the canopy if their was enough of a problem underground to cause problems for your plans.
I just want to be sure I get to meet you in FL this weekend! Purely selfish.
BE SAFE!
I don't know enough about it, unfortunately. I know it can spread through the root systems grafted together. But not sure if the tree would show definitive signs in the canopy if their was enough of a problem underground to cause problems for your plans.
I just want to be sure I get to meet you in FL this weekend! Purely selfish.
BE SAFE!
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
Heart root is deep, how was the assessment done?
Is the root really compromised to a point of failure or is the arborist just pointing out the fact that the fungus is present on the roots and the tree should be removed?
Testing the wood below the fungus might be the next step in risk assessment if it hasn't already been done.
That tree has got to have some large roots.
Is the root really compromised to a point of failure or is the arborist just pointing out the fact that the fungus is present on the roots and the tree should be removed?
Testing the wood below the fungus might be the next step in risk assessment if it hasn't already been done.
That tree has got to have some large roots.
Norm_Hall
New member
- Location
- Wauconda, (Chicago),IL,USA
Champ, go with the orginal plan and have 2 or 3 back ties.
- Location
- Louisville, KY
[ QUOTE ]
I just want to be sure I get to meet you in FL this weekend! Purely selfish.
BE SAFE!
[/ QUOTE ]
True. True. And to quote TJ (MagicMarmot B to buzzers):
"I think it'll go. Flop it."
I just want to be sure I get to meet you in FL this weekend! Purely selfish.
BE SAFE!
[/ QUOTE ]
True. True. And to quote TJ (MagicMarmot B to buzzers):
"I think it'll go. Flop it."
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
20" Sugar Maple showing live buds and plenty of live wood that fell when I climbed to into the top of the leaning third stem. The other two stems were already removed.
I failed to adequately inspect the roots of this tree and there was no other evidence it was in such bad shape. I didn't hesitate to climb it.
I was a lucky but bloody mess; serious concussion, broken nose, torn MCL, deep bruising... couldn't climb for 3 weeks.
If you think about it, the stress moment at the root level of a leaning tree results in shear forces across the root sections rather than just bending forces on the stem. Unsound roots on a leaning tree is baaad juju.
Thought it was worth adding to the thread. I'm not worried about you Kathy, your head's in the right place. I'll see you in Windermere.
I failed to adequately inspect the roots of this tree and there was no other evidence it was in such bad shape. I didn't hesitate to climb it.
I was a lucky but bloody mess; serious concussion, broken nose, torn MCL, deep bruising... couldn't climb for 3 weeks.
If you think about it, the stress moment at the root level of a leaning tree results in shear forces across the root sections rather than just bending forces on the stem. Unsound roots on a leaning tree is baaad juju.
Thought it was worth adding to the thread. I'm not worried about you Kathy, your head's in the right place. I'll see you in Windermere.
- Location
- Seattle WA
thanks for the wake-up call blinky. your experience in that tree made me really visualize the worst-case scenario, and i decided it's not worth the risk. if the client approves the modified bid, i'll be taking the tree out with a crane a week from wed.
looking forward to meeting you.
k.
looking forward to meeting you.
k.
- Location
- Montg. Co. PA
I was hoping you'd opt for something like that.
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
It's the risk we take everyday. If you feel it's the most expedient way then great however, my feeling is when a client is willing to go with you regardless of cost then it's worth doing the full analysis to assess more indepth the root condition and whether or not it is worth climbing. It appeared to be a tree that would have afforded you some leeway as far as getting it on the ground without having to concern yourself with a small drop zone, obstacles, etc...
It's not alot of fun to have to deal with a tree like this where you aren't afforded such luxuries.
Good on you though for going back to the client with a revised quote instead of just taking a hit on the cost.
Looking forward to the "Tale of the Takedown"....
It's not alot of fun to have to deal with a tree like this where you aren't afforded such luxuries.
Good on you though for going back to the client with a revised quote instead of just taking a hit on the cost.
Looking forward to the "Tale of the Takedown"....
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