Attatchment Knot Failure

Re: Attachment Knot Failure

Thanks Rescueman. I do like the Yosemite bowline.
My personal experience with tying a double overhand knot on a snap with an eye is the knot cinches up to tight to easily untie it. On a biner, where you can slide it off, I agree, it's the knot of choice.
 
Re: Attachment Knot Failure

I like the Bowline also and to make it even better I am now using two loops. Tail the bitter end around and thru again for the Yosemite tie off and it just looks great. I tried three loops and see no improvement in function or looks.

See you at the top.
 
Re: Attachment Knot Failure

Dbl overhand noose knots(my book calls both dbl and triple a Scaffold knot) on my tress cords. My climbing line terminates on the 'biner with a Buntline hitch.
 
Re: Attachment Knot Failure

I've been following the bowline discussion because of my years of experience with sailing. It's kinda interesting that sailors don't use a more stable knot on the jib sheets (lines) given that a trip to the bow to tame a sail can be a life-threatening event. (Picture all hell breaking loose mid-ocean with the sail thrashing about.) In 20 years I have never heard of a bowline coming lose on a jib despite the constant load/no-load cycles. And when the boat is tacked through a stiff wind, well, you can't imagine how the attachment point is violently shaken. I think the reason may be that the knot is typically severely loaded such that nothing will trip or loosen it.

I'm a new climber and do not use the bowline on my saddle. Except...I have used the running bowline for SRT per Jepson. Is there a better knot for this application? Seems like it's tough to keep an eye on the knot once you've run it up to the limb.
 
Re: Attachment Knot Failure

I am hearing all this stuff about a yosemite tie off on a bowline...could someone post a schematic of how to tie it? Or do a detailed decription? Thanks
 
Re: Attachment Knot Failure

Here you go. Complements to The Tree Climbers's Companion by Jeff Jepson...
 

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Re: Attachment Knot Failure

Chuck, I've thought the same thing in the past. I don't like to send a bowline up through a canopy. Use a figure 8 follow through http://www5.0038.net/~yoshioka/Technical_Session/HowToMakeFigureEightKnot3.html Common knot for rock climbers, start with a fig. 8, go around the standing portion of the line, then follow back trough the 8 (hence the name)

That knot, WON'T come un-done, especially if you back it up the way many rock climbers do with a double-overhand knot.

love
nick
 
Re: Attachment Knot Failure

have not visted this thread in quite some time. seems my favorite method of termination using a tripple fisherman or other cinch knot is now officially recognized.

"One of the changes in the 2006 version of the ANSI Z133...AMERICAN National Standards Institute...will be that all body support rope terminations will be cinch-type connections. This means that loops won't be allowed on biners or captured eyes."
 
Re: Attachment Knot Failure

Is that rule in effect yet...the ansi standard of no loops for termination knots? I prefer the bowline with yosemitie tie off for my anchor knot. I have a captive eye carabiner on my BII so it can't sideload. I like this method because if i want to lanyard in and throw my rope around a higher branch, i can easily do so without untieying a cinch type knot like the anchor hitch. If i used an anchor hitch i could just unclip the beaner with the anchor hitch still on it and throw the whole thing over the next branch but i don't like the idea of throwing beaners around in a tree banging them on branches and the trunk. I guess i just really like my bowline and am very comfortable with how it operates. I will be sad to see it go if this rule is in effect.
 
Re: Attachment Knot Failure

There's no reason that it won't go into effect. I don't think that there were any comments made about the issue during the public comment period. If there were, the commmittee would have discussed making a change and I don't recall hearing any discussion.
 
Re: Attachment Knot Failure

Phil what keeps your bowline with yosemitie tie off from moving around on your biner and loading it's gate?
 
Re: Attachment Knot Failure

Phil has a captive eye biner that runs through the bridge of his butterfly II, its a nice setup. It works great from what ive seen
 
Re: Attachment Knot Failure

[ QUOTE ]
Phil has a captive eye biner that runs through the bridge of his butterfly II, its a nice setup. It works great from what ive seen

[/ QUOTE ]

That was what I though he was describing. I still wonder what keeps his bowline with yosemite tie off from moving around on the biner. This is exactly what the new rules are trying to prevent.

Stumper it seems one of us missed something. /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: Attachment Knot Failure

Dan,

I think you still misunderstand.

Captive eye biner:

dmm.jpg



The bowline is tied into the eye and the main part of the biner slides on the bridge.
 
Re: Attachment Knot Failure

Leon...right idea but the setup is just the opposite...the bridge on the BII is removable so i removed it and ran it through the carabiner's eye. The bowline goes through the main part of the crab so i can remove it wihtout untieing it. I also made a point of keeping the crab's gate towards my body to prevent it from hitting bark and tree durring movement. I figure it will fair better when hitting my less than rock hard abs. And to anyone who is thinking the gate might rub my stomach or chest and roll open...it hardly ever comes in contact with my body under pressure. I truly feel comfortable with this system.
 

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Re: Attachment Knot Failure

I don't think that using a bowline in that configuration would pass the intent of the new Z regs. It still is an attachment knot and needs to cinch. You could take a bit of shoelace or throwline and tie a constrictor hitch to make a tight eye from the bowline though.
 
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