art positioner in single leg configuration?

cbugg

cbugg

Location
Madison WI
Anybody know if it is officially allowed to use the ART positioner in a single leg configuration on my lanyard? I know it works and I do it but I was wondering in the strictest of senses (ITCC specifically) would it be allowed?
 
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Anybody know if it is officially allowed to use the ART positioner in a single leg configuration on my lanyard? I know it works and I do it but I was wondering in the strictest of senses (ITCC specifically) would it be allowed?

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Would that be like using the CELanyard in a single leg configuration? For positioning and not climbing, in other words it is not supporting the full load, thus the ART positioner seems to work and the hitch on the CELanyard works as well. I will be interested to hear the answer and if it is yes does the answer apply to the CELanyard as well?
 
I am talking about the way the ce lanyard is used with the thimble and attaching the hitch/positioner to the bridge. I feel that it is supporting the full load if you were to cut your primary tie in point with a chainsaw. that is what a second point of attachment needs to be able to handle. could not find much definitive information on the art website but I have noticed Joe Harris did not have a thimble on his lanyard at the ITCC in Portland. It may be a preference of his or it may not be allowed.
 
The way I understand it with the celanyard it is rated for static loads on the hitch in the single leg configuration but not for movement on that hitch alone in a single leg configuration.
 
The ART Posistioner 2 is rated at a WLL of 2KN, or 200kg.
So as long as its used for positioning only,and not primary life support, and its within its WLL, i dont see a problem?. Not that i know anything about your rules over there.
Dont know anything about the CE lanyard.
 
I saw Beddes use one in the the M/C in Minnesota 07.He chocked it to help get out the limb walk station,It was a big Silver leaf maple.
 
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I saw Beddes use one in the the M/C in Minnesota 07.He chocked it to help get out the limb walk station,It was a big Silver leaf maple.

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Hey Jimmy, That was '06 :)
Beddes was using a Trango Cinch at the time.
There is a cool photo of him at the polesaw station on treemagineers website in the Gallery section.
 
Pretty sure Herbert will tell you what has been said above. As long as it is used for positioning with no chance of dynamic fall (factor 2). Same as CE. Lanyard although there are others here who could speak to it better.

Tony
 
A factor 2 fall? That would mean you would have to be standing on the limb that your cinched to. Is a factor 1 fall okay then? A factor two fall you would have to be in a very out of control position above your tie in point. This would never happen in a comp. a factor 1 fall is much more likely and still pretty rough. I can't imagine a factor two fall occurring anytime in tree climbing without being truly crazy.
 
the amount of distance you fall divided by the amount of feet in the system.

If you fall ten feet and you have ten feet in your system it is a factor 1 fall. It will hurt pretty bad

if you fall 10 feet but only have 5 feet in your system it is factor 2 and will be much much more painful.


It is worse to fall 6 feet with three feet of rope (factor 2) than to fall 20 feet with 20 feet of rope (factor 1) even with the relativity low stretch ropes that we use.

If you are climbing with a base tie for example, you have a lot of rope in the system and you will not have over a factor 1 fall even if you are climbing above your last redirect. if you are climbing 10 feet above your last redirect but you have 50 feet in the system, you will fall 20 feet but will have a fall factor of only .4

A lot of how bad it will feel is dependent on how much stretch is in the rope.
 
In tree climbing we should not experience any kind of factor falls. It is bad practice to have slack in your system. a factor 2 fall is plain craziness.

Factor falls are very important in rock climbing and lead climbing where you are taking lead falls. On a multi pitch climb, when the lead climber leaves the belay ledge and before he sets his first piece of pro, It is the most critical time as he is exposed to a factor 2 fall. Even a short fall or 3 feet can cause failure of rigging and broken backs. Once the lead climber Climbs up 50 feet, a 20 foot whipper is no thing.
 
Sounds like a whole new thread about fall factors and how it relates to tree climbing equipment would be very educational. I have not done the math but it sounds like some very linear solutions to an exponential problem. I hope to learn a few things on this one.
 
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....fall 6 feet with three feet of rope (factor 2) than to fall 20 feet with 20 feet of rope (factor 1)....

A lot of how bad it will feel is dependent on how much stretch is in the rope.

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Some interesting computations in this learning curve.

With a fall of 6' you will reach a speed of just over 13 MPH in .61 seconds.
With a fall of 20' you will reach a speed of just over 24 MPH in 1.12 seconds.
But the impact force will be 3 and a third times greater.
So it becomes obvious that the higher you are the harder you hit. Falling 160' is the same as being hit by a car going 70 MPH or it can also be said, hitting something at 70MPH is like falling to the ground from 160'.

So, the interesting thing is the deceleration rate dependent on the stretch of the rope and in rock climbing with stretchy ropes spreading that fall over twice the rope has a great safety factor but in tree climbing where the ropes that are used have much less stretch it does not sound like falling any distance is a good thing.
 
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