Anyone use 2 flip lines?

Jehinten said:
I went the DEDA route. I use a snap and ART positiner on one end, and a carabiner and hitch on the other. My hitch is tended by the connecting carabiner. I can either use both ends at once, or use it as one long lanyard
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Love this setup..
Used something similar, on a tritech lanyard once. Difference was, you seem to have that friction hitch/biner combo nailed. What i came up with was too wide to run the lanyard through the biner as well as the two ends of the hitch without causing unwanted friction while tending.. The way i did it also came out much longer as the hitch cord had a predetermined lenght as it had sewn eyes i wasn't willing to cut off & manipulate the length.

In order to overcome the rope causing Friction on the hitch eyes by going through the biner, i used a tiny dyneema loop girthed around a small SMC ring & attached the loop end between the hitch eyes.. & obviously ran rope through the ring before the biner. Similar to how a shizl tender would work. It worked suprisingly good for what it was, especially for what it cost just after purchasing the uber expensive ART positioner.. However there was something about it i didn't like.. it felt ghetto/half assed or something.. like it didn't belong as it was not slick & short like J's..


Hey J.. how does that Sirius run through the ART? Do you happen to know if it actually measures bigger than 12mm..? Like does it run big, small or right on.. I'm curious if i could run the 14mm Sirius through mine..
 
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I like how the rope is running in it, although I have nothing to compare it to as I bought the positioner for this lanyard. I just noticed the other day that several of the white strands of the rope are sticking out from the rope, possibly wearing from the adjuster or moving over the branches? I have read that it is not a great rope for natural crotch rigging due to wear.

I haven't measured mine to know if it is true to the size, but if you splice both ends like I did make sure to milk it first. I milked about a foot of cover off before splicing the second end, and on occasion I can still see the rope get a little baggy. As for the hitch I typically use hitch cord with eyes as well, but I chose to use bulk cordage because I knew I wanted that hitch to be very compact. It functions very smooth, I would have no problem using that setup as a primary adjuster instead of a secondary.
 
Jehinten said:
I have read that it is not a great rope for natural crotch rigging due to wear.
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Yes I've heard the same but at the same time i thought i heard it was supposed to be better than most double braids in a natty crotch scenario because of how the cover is made.. it seems smooth/slick/thick/tight woven.. but i think YMMV applies.

Jehinten said:
I milked about a foot of cover off before splicing the second end, and on occasion I can still see the rope get a little baggy.
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Oh wow.. that sounds excessive.. i did a Rig Saver with the 16mm & don't recall having to do that. Also, I always second guess how crazy to go with milking covers.. like... go till your hands bleed or leave a bit to make the other eye just a little easier to bury. But it's a balancing act as i know you don't want any left in the end.


Jehinten said:
As for the hitch I typically use hitch cord with eyes as well, but I chose to use bulk cordage because I knew I wanted that hitch to be very compact.
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This is another place i get a bit confused... "Bulk Cordage".. most accessory Cordage i see from the likes of Sterling, Blue Water, Teufelberger or any other outfit, they all have lower MBS ratings.. usually below 4k.. which is the point where i start to question whether it should be used.

Then when knots are being Incorporated as well as that lower MBS, where do you draw the line..? Because of this, i feel alot of times I'm limiting myself to only the high dollar botique Cordage's you see kicking around the usually ARB stores. You know.. the stuff that cost $1.50+ a foot with Tenex being the exception.

Sure, i see plenty of high strength low cost small dinameter Cordage (dyneema,vectran,technora) but every time i think about utilizing one of then i think about that Yale Cordage break test video & ask myself can it be shock loaded in the event i fall on it. This is where i get lost in the weeds & resort back to the stuff i strictly see in ARB catalogs.


Jehinten said:
It functions very smooth, I would have no problem using that setup as a primary adjuster instead of a secondary.
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Exactly..
& Then i wonder why i just spent $150 on this fancy adjuster.. or any adjuster for that matter. Out of the three lanyard adjusters i have only one of them (AP2) work as smooth as this secondary design.



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Jimmycrackcorn said:
...where do you draw the line..?
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The hitch cord is in basket mode.. so, I draw the line at about 2500 lbs. MBS... and it doesn't need any elongation. That's what the rope is for. Long before that hitch cord breaks, it will start peeling the jacket off that climb line.

Don't sweat the small stuff, brother... find a cord you really like with the rope you're using and play with hitches/cords until you find a combo you like. It's half the fun of owning rope.

Hey, I just put another fairly long lanyard together and for shits n' giggles went with a friction hitch, even though I have a pile of mechanical adjusters. I forgot how simple and reliable that setup really is. Note the prussik minder... man, that SS snap works like a Shizll and better than a pulley.

TriTech-Lanyard.webp
 
What is the other knot that is not a prusik on your line? Is this a DEDA type flip line?
Since I made my flip lines instead of buying spliced ones; is there a better knot than a double or triple over hand noose for my eye hooks? My boss uses a plain bowline for just about everything and I've seen what happens when you beat one around for a while.
 
The thimble prussic is to attach the carabiner/pulley when I need a 3:1 mechanical advantage. The hitch is a Distel Hitch tied with a 24", eye-and-eye prussik cord (Epicord 8mm). Instead of a hitch tending pulley, I used a stainless steel snap that serves the same function. These parts are the adjuster.

otismcfeely said:
...is there a better knot...
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Try a Buntline Hitch.

otismcfeely said:
Is this a DEDA type flip line?
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No, just a 16' long lanyard. The small carabiner on the tail end is just to clip it to my harness to keep it out of my way. I stuff most of the tail into a ditty bag.
 
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JeffGu said:
The hitch cord is in basket mode.. so, I draw the line at about 2500 lbs. MBS... and it doesn't need any elongation. That's what the rope is for.
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Right right.. i get that aspect of it.. but what about the termination knots when using bulk cord.. that's where i get tripped up... Or not so much tripped up but, just trying to play it safe & not bet on an variable that is unknown to me.. Idk.. maybe it's overkill on the safety logic.. Regardless.. The way im plotting it out is.. let's say i use your 2500 line in the sand..
So.. 2500+2500 gets you into that comfortable 5000 range... But if you have knots for the terminations, the 5000 could be reduced by half depending on what's used for termination.. So we're possibly/hypothetically back to 2500... Yeah? No?

But in the end, i think.. "hey I'm tied in twice" it's not going to be taking the full load, so should i even be concerned with all this...



JeffGu said:
Long before that hitch cord breaks, it will start peeling the jacket off that climb line.
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Interesting comment about the cover, i thought that was more prone to happening with mechanical devices & with a friction hitch it will usually slip before tearing cover? Is that true? I know if thats the case i theotetically shouldn't be all that concerned about it breaking because it's going to slip beforehand, however I've always thought that the previous quote above is basically the standard you want to start with & stay above, regardless if its going to slip or rip well before the MBS of that Cordage.

Didnt Mumford do some friction hitch testing once on his load machine? Or am i thinking of something else?

JeffGu said:
Note the prussik minder... man, that SS snap works like a Shizll and better than a pulley.
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Yes they do work well, as well as reducing the amount of bulky items you need to make a system work...

Say.. what biners are those Jeff? Aside from their shape, are they around the same size as a DMM Shadow or other Smaller DMM options? They look very compact... I like them, they almost look like a screw link.


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Jimmycrackcorn said:
...what biners are those...?
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Those are the CAMP compact ovals... very lightweight, small... also very nice for a hitchclimber setup, to get it a little more compact. They're not a "true oval" in that the ends are a little flattened out. Makes them real good for the Petzl Fixe type pulleys and a tight eye. The true oval ones are a little better for going through a ring on your saddle or such, as they self-center the load a little faster.

DMM has the smaller PerfectO 'biners out, too... also very compact.

I have both the double-locking and the screwlink versions of the CAMP 'biners... the one with the pulley on it in that pic is a screwlink one. Action on the double-lockers is real good.
 
I recently started using some Camp carabiners, and love them. World-class quality that puts some of the better known (more expensive) brands to shame. All at a great price!
 
JeffGu said:
Those are the CAMP compact ovals... very lightweight, small... also very nice for a hitchclimber setup, to get it a little more compact. They're not a "true oval" in that the ends are a little flattened out. Makes them real good for the Petzl Fixe type pulleys and a tight eye. The true oval ones are a little better for going through a ring on your saddle or such, as they self-center the load a little faster.

DMM has the smaller PerfectO 'biners out, too... also very compact.

I have both the double-locking and the screwlink versions of the CAMP 'biners... the one with the pulley on it in that pic is a screwlink one. Action on the double-lockers is real good.
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rico said:
I recently started using some Camp carabiners, and love them. World-class quality that puts some of the better known (more expensive) brands to shame. All at a great price!
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Nice Nice.. i thought those were Camp after browsing the net a bit.. I tend to like the smaller biners for alot of stuff. Another great factor when experimenting away from the usual suspects is their prices points.. you can find some really good deals.

I've thought of that new DMM O biner but have yet to see it next to anything...

I've also seen that new Rig Revolver.. I originally saw that & thought of J's secondary setup in the beginning of this thread, but I'm not sure it would work out to well like that as you got no where to put the eyes of your prusik cordgae.

I've also been eyeing that black diamond magnetron gridlock to take the place of a rope snap, i think it functions just as easy, but is more compact.

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I've been using those CAMP compact ovals for a few years with my Runner. I like the compactness and lighter weight, but they are too narrow for a Wrench pulley and tether. For some reason, they don't feel as solid to me as something like a DMM; like they would be more brittle. I hear the new DMM Perfect-O won't fit on a Runner.

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JeffGu said:
good for a ZigZag setup, though...
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Oooo.. perfect.. ive been looking for a smaller open for that thing.

Say.. Jeff.. are they really 4in long? I keep going over specs on them & keep coming up with 4in. Are they just super skinny & that's all that's making them look mini?

For example my DMM "Average O" is 4 & 1/4 strong.. but looking at your lanyard they look tiny... Like they would be significantly shorter than a typical O biner.

I tried to buy some today with some other Rigging Biners but they didn't have them..





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JeffGu said:
They're just a little shorter, and a bit narrower. I think only WesSpur is carrying the CAMP 'biners right now.
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Right on.. right on.. imma have to get me some.. just gonna have to find a better deal than Wespurs $20 a peice full retail pricing.



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