- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Lakes...take the time and write a note about what you're saying. When the Z committee meets ALL comments are reviewed by the whole committee. If you don't say something it won't be considered.
ANSI Z133 Public Comment period
- Thread starter Tom Dunlap
- Start date
Tr33Climb3r
Participating member
- Location
- Wisconsin
Hey Tom any new stuff on SRT or Ascenders and appropriate back ups? Sorry haven't called you got a test coming up and it has consumed most of my time. I look forward to catching up on SRT info.
Crazy_Jimmy
Participating member
- Location
- Texas
I noticed no changes regarding equipment thats 22kn.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Casey---Going into SRT v DdRT would be descriptive rather than prescriptive.
Jimmy---That has been talked about. The 5,400 rule is still in place. Maybe next round.
Jimmy---That has been talked about. The 5,400 rule is still in place. Maybe next round.
R
rich_h
Guest
[ QUOTE ]
....If there were ever a way to measure the effect of the safety of the workforce by following the Z and the companies who don't even require head and eye pro I think that it would be significant. Another reg for the 'law abiders' to follow can make things even more difficult.
[/ QUOTE ]
If this is the gist of the argument against chainsaw pro for climbers then I wonder why any of the Z is in place....pretty much the entire thing regulates 'law abiders' and does nothing to prevent companies that don't acknowledge it.
"Another discussion point is to consider the workplace heat that the workers in the US encounter. Here in Austin it was 80F last Friday! How much risk is the climber at when their body heats up and their functions start to shut down?"
Ummm...According to Al Gore we are all going to be working in 90 F temps....including the Canadians
I'm pretty sure that most of Europe has 4 seasons as well. Would hate to think we are so truly arrogant that we shouldn't have to deal with conditions that most others can and do work in regularly.
If I were more cynical I might speculate that there may be several very old and very large private companies and potentially a few extremely large utility line companies that wouldn't be a big fan of suddenly needing to outfit all of their climbers with chainsaw protective pants. Are there studies available from Europe showing the value of having climbers wearing leg protection? Couldn't those studies also apply to climbers here?
This same cynicism might also apply to the 22 kN rule for gear... It sure would be a convenient way to promote US manufacturers over foreign manufacturers if the foreign standards for products just happened to be a tad shy of the US standards.....Its too bad the US has lost the ability to compete globally in many manufacturing areas, even with standards set it place to assist them.
Of course, for either of the above to actually be true then the needs of large powerful companies would be placed above the needs of the people actually doing the work or using the gear......that surely couldn't be possible
*** Please bear in mind that I have been laid up in bed much of this past week and had plenty of time to listen to "Coast to Coast A.M" so at this point I am seeing conspiracy in the fact that the sun rises in the East and sets in the West
****
....If there were ever a way to measure the effect of the safety of the workforce by following the Z and the companies who don't even require head and eye pro I think that it would be significant. Another reg for the 'law abiders' to follow can make things even more difficult.
[/ QUOTE ]
If this is the gist of the argument against chainsaw pro for climbers then I wonder why any of the Z is in place....pretty much the entire thing regulates 'law abiders' and does nothing to prevent companies that don't acknowledge it.
"Another discussion point is to consider the workplace heat that the workers in the US encounter. Here in Austin it was 80F last Friday! How much risk is the climber at when their body heats up and their functions start to shut down?"
Ummm...According to Al Gore we are all going to be working in 90 F temps....including the Canadians
If I were more cynical I might speculate that there may be several very old and very large private companies and potentially a few extremely large utility line companies that wouldn't be a big fan of suddenly needing to outfit all of their climbers with chainsaw protective pants. Are there studies available from Europe showing the value of having climbers wearing leg protection? Couldn't those studies also apply to climbers here?
This same cynicism might also apply to the 22 kN rule for gear... It sure would be a convenient way to promote US manufacturers over foreign manufacturers if the foreign standards for products just happened to be a tad shy of the US standards.....Its too bad the US has lost the ability to compete globally in many manufacturing areas, even with standards set it place to assist them.
Of course, for either of the above to actually be true then the needs of large powerful companies would be placed above the needs of the people actually doing the work or using the gear......that surely couldn't be possible
*** Please bear in mind that I have been laid up in bed much of this past week and had plenty of time to listen to "Coast to Coast A.M" so at this point I am seeing conspiracy in the fact that the sun rises in the East and sets in the West
- Location
- MD
IMO if the U.S. is going go with chainsaw protection aloft the we need more than just chaps in the market to buy. They are very restricting in a tree and the pants that are made are way overpriced. What small company could afford to buy $350 pants for themselves or another climber on the crew. Dont get me wrong I think the chainsaw pants are awesome, I have several pair but it seems if you want to be safe you have pay a lot of money to do so. It reminds me of eating healthy, you can go buy and whole meal full of carbs and fat for under $5. But if you want to eat healthy a bunch of bananas and bag of grapes is $6.27. (Just went to grocery store)
Hey porcupine, get a desk job.
- Location
- Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
Hey TW, thanks for the insight.
I'm just trying to follow the rules, climbing without having another climber ready to rescue you
happens all the time. Is it a safe practice? Its not ideal but what can you do?
I'm just trying to follow the rules, climbing without having another climber ready to rescue you
happens all the time. Is it a safe practice? Its not ideal but what can you do?
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
How is it we can't seem to deal with heat yet fire fighters can??? Or do those in the south get to wear shorts and a tee shirt to put out those flames? The too hot argument is flimsy at best.
While the Z is a great tool for those companies that wish to be at the leading edge of safety, the sad reality is that most, big and small, shirk responsibility as prescribed by OSHA. I've yet to be provided anything or even offered compensation for the PPE I provide for myself. Employers are willing to gamble that they won't be found out and thus save themselves the cost of the PPE they are obligated to provide.
We need enforcement of the basics, i.e., OSHA regs, before we can expect the majority to strive to achieve the level of the Z.
While the Z is a great tool for those companies that wish to be at the leading edge of safety, the sad reality is that most, big and small, shirk responsibility as prescribed by OSHA. I've yet to be provided anything or even offered compensation for the PPE I provide for myself. Employers are willing to gamble that they won't be found out and thus save themselves the cost of the PPE they are obligated to provide.
We need enforcement of the basics, i.e., OSHA regs, before we can expect the majority to strive to achieve the level of the Z.
Frax
Participating member
A couple of comments from the somewhat trained and moderately experienced in the sections that I can comment on:
6.1.4 about power tools needing to be "secured against falling" when aloft - it doesn't say what that could be. Is a firm grip by a guy with hands the size of ball glioves OK? Probably not what was intended. Does this need to be clarified somewhat - maybe 'secured by...'. And that might be approved safety lanyard, rope or whatever? At teh very least it should eliminate that a firm grip satisfies teh requirement.
Does 'aloft' include standing on a ladder or is it defined as being in a tree or in a bucket or on a crane or something. This term is used a lot. Does this need to be defined or do I need to get a life?
8.1.3 - split tail needs to be included in the defined terms list. I am confused about whether or not spliced eyes can be used on the carabiner attachment opposite the one that has the climbing hitch at the end of teh rope on a Ddrt (split-tail maybe).
8.4.11 Response: All Clear!, Underneath!, or No!
Why 'underneath'? Why not just NO. I'm not the only one with sh*t hearing. 'Underneath' could sounds like 'all clear' on a windy day or uttered or understood by someone with a heavy accent. Or if we need something else, why not "Below! That at least sounds like "No".
8.5.14 - the term 'barber chair' should be in the defined terms list.
I will send my notes to the right place but I wouldn't mind some comment if anyone sees anything that could change what I'm thinking.
6.1.4 about power tools needing to be "secured against falling" when aloft - it doesn't say what that could be. Is a firm grip by a guy with hands the size of ball glioves OK? Probably not what was intended. Does this need to be clarified somewhat - maybe 'secured by...'. And that might be approved safety lanyard, rope or whatever? At teh very least it should eliminate that a firm grip satisfies teh requirement.
Does 'aloft' include standing on a ladder or is it defined as being in a tree or in a bucket or on a crane or something. This term is used a lot. Does this need to be defined or do I need to get a life?
8.1.3 - split tail needs to be included in the defined terms list. I am confused about whether or not spliced eyes can be used on the carabiner attachment opposite the one that has the climbing hitch at the end of teh rope on a Ddrt (split-tail maybe).
8.4.11 Response: All Clear!, Underneath!, or No!
Why 'underneath'? Why not just NO. I'm not the only one with sh*t hearing. 'Underneath' could sounds like 'all clear' on a windy day or uttered or understood by someone with a heavy accent. Or if we need something else, why not "Below! That at least sounds like "No".
8.5.14 - the term 'barber chair' should be in the defined terms list.
I will send my notes to the right place but I wouldn't mind some comment if anyone sees anything that could change what I'm thinking.
- Location
- Federal Way WA
Working in a high risk industry by yourself is not very safe. That's why there are requirements to have a second person there.
- Location
- Pukalani, Hawaii
my previous employer taught me to say HEADACHE before making a cut and ALL CLEAR after the cut.
when walking below the climbers work in a tree we were taught to say BELOW! also he provided head and hearing and chainsaw protection for groundies.
when walking below the climbers work in a tree we were taught to say BELOW! also he provided head and hearing and chainsaw protection for groundies.
10x what Rich said!.......
Additionally, I would like the committee to begin talking about potential methods to increase the responsibility of vendors of used aerial lift equipment. I think that when a small tree care company purchases a used lift...as happens often in this business..... that the truck/lift SHALL pass the ansi/osha inspections BEFORE changing hands. And that the seller SHALL provide in-depth, detailed instruction regarding it's use and maintenance to the purchaser/intended user.
Used life support equipment must be held to a stricter standard than new. Currently, if it's used it's a black hole..... Booms, pistons and hoses rarely fail on new trucks.
Used equipment is a huge business, let's make it safer for operators by getting this stuff to spec BEFORE it hits the field.
2cents worth
Additionally, I would like the committee to begin talking about potential methods to increase the responsibility of vendors of used aerial lift equipment. I think that when a small tree care company purchases a used lift...as happens often in this business..... that the truck/lift SHALL pass the ansi/osha inspections BEFORE changing hands. And that the seller SHALL provide in-depth, detailed instruction regarding it's use and maintenance to the purchaser/intended user.
Used life support equipment must be held to a stricter standard than new. Currently, if it's used it's a black hole..... Booms, pistons and hoses rarely fail on new trucks.
Used equipment is a huge business, let's make it safer for operators by getting this stuff to spec BEFORE it hits the field.
2cents worth
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Mark,
You have until Monday to write up suggestions for the Z133 committee. already I'm getting emails about sub-group meetings to discuss comments on 4/12 before the 'voting meeting' on 4/13.
You have until Monday to write up suggestions for the Z133 committee. already I'm getting emails about sub-group meetings to discuss comments on 4/12 before the 'voting meeting' on 4/13.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Mark...too late...the comment period closed on Monday.
Follow the original link and you'll find the procedure for making a comment. There is a small chance that the comment may be considered.
Follow the original link and you'll find the procedure for making a comment. There is a small chance that the comment may be considered.
Frax
Participating member
I was really impressed at how this process rolled out. Got my detailed formal response from ISA yesterday. It feels good to know that in some small way I have contributed something to the Profession.
...instead of my usual inane drivel.
Very inclusive process.Good work for those that did the heavy lifting on this initiative!
...instead of my usual inane drivel.
Very inclusive process.Good work for those that did the heavy lifting on this initiative!
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
[ QUOTE ]
It feels good to know that in some small way I have contributed something to the Profession.
[/ QUOTE ]
Good comments.
For some real fun, take part in the A300 process!
It feels good to know that in some small way I have contributed something to the Profession.
[/ QUOTE ]
Good comments.
For some real fun, take part in the A300 process!
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Frax
Your comments ended up at one of the Task Groups that I'm involved. Seeing how the TG worded the response and then how the whole committee discussed them was interesting
There were substantive changes made because of public comments as well as TG recommendations That means that the changes Will be made and the Z will go out for another public comment soon.
A year from now there will be a new Z.
Your comments ended up at one of the Task Groups that I'm involved. Seeing how the TG worded the response and then how the whole committee discussed them was interesting
There were substantive changes made because of public comments as well as TG recommendations That means that the changes Will be made and the Z will go out for another public comment soon.
A year from now there will be a new Z.
Maple Leaf Tree Service has found that we make it optional for our climbers to wear the chainsaw protective chaps; however due to 100+ temperatures for nearly half the year we have found most climbers would rather stay home in the air condition rather than wear more heat containing restrictive gear.
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