Am I the only one who gets this scared?

[colb]

Yea I'm scared all the time. This jobs nuts. But if I'm gonna be in a tree for over three hours I'll make a point to do a detailed gear inspection with emphasis on my climbing line. I'll bounce test my tie in point with someone else and or ask another climbers opinion on my crotch selection. I'll climb srt with a base tie and direct my line on a few redirects either in the tree or with the throw ball. I'll use drt techniques when past 40 degrees. I'll start on easier parts of the tree as to get acquainted with it first. last and my favorite I'll swear under my breath the whole time blaming the sales guy, and the company for putting me in this position

Climbing SRT can solve a lot of the anchor uncertainty. Anchor redundancy justifies confidence. If you were cleaning very large boulders from a new rock climb you probably would not put your anchor amidst them. You would descend from above, using the best anchor that your rope length permits. Yet climbing line anchors in tree removals are routinely placed in vicinity of the cutting action.

Stay within your comfort zone. I just started climbing freshly dead pines in year 4. It's a lot to think about in terms of potential root decay and rigging forces. I will not climb just any dead pine unless I know I've got game on it. I'm also crane climbing this Monday for the first time. I've been studying it for a year, got two small trees under contract a month ago, and have rehearsed every cut in my mind hundreds of times. That may be overkill for others, but it's where I'm at in order to be comfortable. Tell your supervisor that you'll climb what you're comfortable climbing. If he doesn't like it, incorporate your business with a bicycle, ms 192t, and Stein arbor trolley, profit first business strategy, and make some. You'll never go back to working for someone else.

 

[Mel]

Climbing SRT can solve a lot of the anchor uncertainty. Anchor redundancy justifies confidence. If you were cleaning very large boulders from a new rock climb you probably would not put your anchor amidst them. You would descend from above, using the best anchor that your rope length permits. Yet climbing line anchors in tree removals are routinely placed in vicinity of the cutting action.

Stay within your comfort zone. I just started climbing freshly dead pines in year 4. It's a lot to think about in terms of potential root decay and rigging forces. I will not climb just any dead pine unless I know I've got game on it. I'm also crane climbing this Monday for the first time. I've been studying it for a year, got two small trees under contract a month ago, and have rehearsed every cut in my mind hundreds of times. That may be overkill for others, but it's where I'm at in order to be comfortable. Tell your supervisor that you'll climb what you're comfortable climbing. If he doesn't like it, incorporate your business with a bicycle, ms 192t, and Stein arbor trolley, profit first business strategy, and make some. You'll never go back to working for someone else.

I think a common theme here is that I need to push back when I'm being pressured. It helps no one. But I like having him around to bounce ideas off of.

The other day I removed a medium sized oak in record time while having a damn near anxiety attack. I wanted to throw up, I was weak, my hands shook and I felt light headed. All that discomfort just cause I was being rushed. I was also doing some decently complicated rigging so being nauseated didn't help at all. I've never been on such a rollercoaster of feelings before!


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[evo]

That is a recipe for injury, and mistakes. An old time climber told me once "You won't get a significant injury until you feel comfortable in the tree"

For myself the the fear is very relative to the tree. I'm solid to 50-60 all the time. Then there are the 80' climbs to the first live limb that wig me out occasionally. Being tied in to 16" diameter wood 100' is vastly different than being tied into 4" diameter wood at 70'. I learned to climb on Ddrt and srt wigs me out. Best advice I can give you is when you hit that threshold slow down sit back, look around, double check your gear and swing around.

I find it really funny, when I was a kid I use to climb 20-30 into spindly alder and start swinging. I would either get the tree swaying to the point where I could grab the next tree or just up root the tree and ride it to the ground. Then there was the large dense red cedar that I would climb shimmy out the limbs and slide/tumble back to the ground. The more complex the climbing system the more clumsy I feel, and therefore the more nervous I become.. Tree work is one of the only rope professions where you are disassembling the object supporting you.

 

[evo]

Just to add...

Typically it's not the gear or the tree I get scared from, it's myself. It could be walking along the edge of a cliff face, or climbing a tree. Knowing if I make one misstep I am dead or at least seriously injured.

"Bravery is not the absence of fear, but the mastery of it"

 

[Mel]

And here I was, thinking everybody would tell me to just "man up" [emoji23]
(Even though I'm a girl)

Just to add...

Typically it's not the gear or the tree I get scared from, it's myself. It could be walking along the edge of a cliff face, or climbing a tree. Knowing if I make one misstep I am dead or at least seriously injured.

"Bravery is not the absence of fear, but the mastery of it"

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[monkeylove]

There is no such thing as "manning up" or in your case "womanning up" in a single step. Nobody learned to walk before they crawled, well 99% of the people. I still only climb on mechanical hitches because prusiks sketch me out.

 

[Jem4417]

I'll never stop bounce Testing my anchors,and hate to start any de-rail of the original topic, but has anyone have any light on a bounce test being a cycle to failure? It's come up a lot lately with the instability of the eab infected ash trees in my area. Yet I can't imagine not bounce testing my anchor first

 

[DSMc]

And here I was, thinking everybody would tell me to just "man up" [emoji23]
(Even though I'm a girl)

That is because most everyone responding has recognized that your fear is not an irrational fear. You are an experienced climber in other venues but you do not have enough knowledge of trees. How can you trust what you don't know? Filling in the unknown with understanding will not only ease your mind it will save you from injury or even death.

Case in point. You specifically mentioned canopy and suspension point movement being a problem. You are right, it is. A tree will defuse forces like wind through mass dampening. For that, movement and flexibility are required. Add more force and the tree will start shedding limbs.

Trees are very strong in compression, even small limbs. The small half inch limb that you can easily snap in half is strong enough to puncture you rib cage if loaded in compression. You want as much of the load that you apply to the tree to be in compression. Take some time and study rigging force charts. Understand how you can use force vectors through rope angles, to load to compression and minimize lateral loads and flex.

Movement while testing a tie-in-point is something that needs to be carefully assessed.

 

[treebing]

Do some math, think about how much force is put on the tree in a single gust of wind. Its pretty crazy the loads trees take on a regular basis. And for the most part they haven't broken. Take more time in your inspection to ensure there is no abnormalities. You conclude your weight to the tree is pretty inconsequential in comparison to what they deal with on a daily basis with the weather. Watch how much you move the tree while climbing than watch the tree in a good gale. They can really move and not break. Good tie in points and good work positioning really really help. Climbing with two lines is a very good technique for developing awesome work positioning. Its nice to feel secure and not slip off and take a nub to the chin because you have a shitty rope angle and your doing a knee bar in a crotch and your elbow wrapped around a branch while your holding the pole pruners and the wind starts to blow. It is not advisable to climb in high winds. I cut off at 25mph. more or less.

 

[Mel]

When climbing with two lines, you set both of them from the ground? Like instead of adding a line once you're up I mean

Do some math, think about how much force is put on the tree in a single gust of wind. Its pretty crazy the loads trees take on a regular basis. And for the most part they haven't broken. Take more time in your inspection to ensure there is no abnormalities. You conclude your weight to the tree is pretty inconsequential in comparison to what they deal with on a daily basis with the weather. Watch how much you move the tree while climbing than watch the tree in a good gale. They can really move and not break. Good tie in points and good work positioning really really help. Climbing with two lines is a very good technique for developing awesome work positioning. Its nice to feel secure and not slip off and take a nub to the chin because you have a shitty rope angle and your doing a knee bar in a crotch and your elbow wrapped around a branch while your holding the pole pruners and the wind starts to blow. It is not advisable to climb in high winds. I cut off at 25mph. more or less.

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[david1332]

When climbing with two lines, you set both of them from the ground? Like instead of adding a line once you're up I mean






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You can do either really, usually though it's while you're up in the tree, unless there's two very wide set leads, or a broad canopy.

However each time I've done it I've set it in the tree and only for very long and work intensive limbs walks such as pruning a tree back off a house or other structure.

 

[Mel]

You can do either really, usually though it's while you're up in the tree, unless there's two very wide set leads, or a broad canopy.

However each time I've done it I've set it in the tree and only for very long and work intensive limbs walks such as pruning a tree back off a house or other structure.

Ok cool.

Cause I also sometimes just set a low-ish TIP from the ground, then climb to it and advance my line up and maybe include some static redirects. Similar, but I'll try with a second line! Thanks for the tip (as in pointer, not TIP haha..).


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[Jem4417]

If you want an excellent thread to reference double tying in techniques there's one I believe is called DRT that I can't find for some reason. @treebing started the thread with some help from @Fairfield and it is really insightful if your interested. It's honestly one of my favorite threads

 

[Steve Connally]

It's interesting. Panic and claustrophobia is the first topic in confined space rescue training but is rarely touched on pertaining to heights. I have had many times i've had to remind myself to trust the tree or the gear. Usually what I would do is get nervous, make a bad cut, break something and then realize I should have just gone higher. Next time i'd go higher. Fence replacements got expensive. Take a break. Stay up there and work through it. You can do it. Trust, you, the tree, and your gear. Good luck

 

[colb]

Ok cool.

Cause I also sometimes just set a low-ish TIP from the ground, then climb to it and advance my line up and maybe include some static redirects. Similar, but I'll try with a second line! Thanks for the tip (as in pointer, not TIP haha..).


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Instead of setting an entire second climbing system, just get a captain hook and 30-40 feet of line with a rope wrench system on it. Obviously, its not rated for life support, but it accomplishes the same things as a second line in most cases while being available for other tasks as well. The hook is amazing.

 

[david1332]

Ok cool.

Cause I also sometimes just set a low-ish TIP from the ground, then climb to it and advance my line up and maybe include some static redirects. Similar, but I'll try with a second line! Thanks for the tip (as in pointer, not TIP haha..).


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How do you set your lines?

 

[John_KAYS]

I've been climbing for my fiancé's company for about 8 months.

I found tree work only after my rope skills had developed. This helped me learn really quick when I did eventually get into a tree and I could bring other disciplines' techniques into the tree. My skills where developed through learning crevasse rescue techniques and glacier travel, caving, rock climbing (TR, Sport, Trad, Aid) I am also a Search and Rescue Technician for Ronin Safety and Rescue (here in Canada), so I know highlines, ziplines, twin-tension systems, lots of different types of rescues, about a dozen different types of rappel or descending techniques, and some industrial rope access techniques.
.

If I had that much experience in rope access that revolved around having an anchor that is stationary and solid, and then only 8 months in the trees... it's amazing your still climbing. I can't imagine what you must be going through. Everything in you is saying the anchor is meant to be constant, and if, in any of those other industries, your anchor moves even a foot you are surely in a bad position. Now, with all of that in your muscle memory and training, you are meant to feel happy about your anchor bending, swaying, tugging at you... and just after that giving you a few feet of slack as the wind plays with the canopy. 8 months is also not long enough to feel entirely familiar with tree climbing. I was probably 8 years into climbing before I was used to the feeling of a moving anchor..and not even now necessarily.

I would also suggest two ropes with separate TIPs. SRT/DRT. It really does give you a more solid anchor feel. Even if the wind hits the TIP and you are in another lead you have multiple vectors keeping you in line.

Don't be too hard on yourself. Trees are organic and are therefore a MUCH different climbing venue than just about anything. Maybe climbing the masts of a Man-Of-War would be similar...

 

[Frax]

Awesome thread, and excellent advice.
If you're already doing large and complex removals after only 8 months in this business you're pushing up the learning curve very steeply. Congratulations on managing that for starters! I didn't whack my first proper big tree with hooks and a chainsaw until I'd been working and climbing for a few years.
I'm also a Canadian, and got my start in Calgary. After 7 years of the smaller branchier, but generally weak wooded trees (like the poplar and Manitoba maple), I'm now in NC for 5 years, where the trees are enormous but strong as, well... you know what.
One small idea to consider, especially on the relatively weakly wooded trees out there, consider setting, or switching to a cinched canopy anchor around the main part of the stem, just above a good side limb, but not involving the side limb at all. This is assuming you're on SRT which I'm guessing you are because you mention using a lot of redirects.

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[Mel]

How do you set your lines?

With a throw line? Lol.
And a basal srt anchor on a f8.

I use a friction saver when I climb drt


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[Mel]

Awesome thread, and excellent advice.
If you're already doing large and complex removals after only 8 months in this business you're pushing up the learning curve very steeply. Congratulations on managing that for starters! I didn't whack my first proper big tree with hooks and a chainsaw until I'd been working and climbing for a few years.
I'm also a Canadian, and got my start in Calgary. After 7 years of the smaller branchier, but generally weak wooded trees (like the poplar and Manitoba maple), I'm now in NC for 5 years, where the trees are enormous but strong as, well... you know what.
One small idea to consider, especially on the relatively weakly wooded trees out there, consider setting, or switching to a cinched canopy anchor around the main part of the stem, just above a good side limb, but not involving the side limb at all. This is assuming you're on SRT which I'm guessing you are because you mention using a lot of redirects.

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I climb both but I just recently got the kit for srt and I'm enjoying it so it's my go-to right now.
So you mean something like the running alpine butterfly-type retrievable anchor method?


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