Addressing hitch binding with the Rope Wrench on descent

ghostice · Apr 1, 2018

I've had hitch binding on all of my hitch based devices one time or another (Wrench, HH2, HClimberPulleys) - sometimes it is just a lousy choice of hitch cord/rope combination, sometimes the knot/ hitch tying needed tweeking, and sometimes it's just good old dripping, gluey conifer sap, on everything . . .
One of my criteria for mechanicals is ease of cleaning with absolute ethanol (RR good/ ZigZag is a job/ toothed rope grabs not so good/ camming rope grabs good, etc). Some times of the year, stuff lasts only one or two conifer jobs then it's stacked for the Highly Intensive Scientific Maintenance Dept in the Cave of Wonders at night/ on weekends . .
Somewhere on this site is a compendium/ thread of hitch cord/ rope/ climber weight information for reference (and a link is earlier in this thread). Happy Easter all.

DSMc · Apr 1, 2018

TimBr said:
... Any thoughts you have at all on a comparison between the two devices would be greatly appreciated... Tim

Getting any hitch-based system to run smoothly will always take a bit of experimenting and some luck. People had the same problems when running DdRT.

But to answer your question directly, yes, I feel there is one big difference in how these two devices deal with friction control, and that it is important. One needs the rope to bend and one does not.

People will say "so what" but the dynamic of adding a bending component adds hugely to the number of variables that can affect performance. More variables are not good IF you are having problems.

islandarb · Apr 1, 2018

I love a rope wrench and never have binding issues. Been using it for over 6 years....love the damn thing. That being said, Dave is correct as there are many variables. New hitch cord/old rope...old hitch cord/ new rope...that is the basic and then new hitch cord/new rope....then add rain...then add dirt and sap...then add dia of rope and dia of hitch cord...then add hitch type and length of hitch cord...the permutations starts to grow exponentially. That being said it is a wonderful thing when you learn what works for your climb style and climbing weight. There you go more variables. It is all about learning and becoming proficient and it takes time. Be patient and it all falls into place. Happy climbing folks.

John@TreeXP · Apr 1, 2018

Has anyone tried using a wooden ring/donut above the hitch knot, to alleviate binding? When hitch knots binds, I would think a wooden donut-like ring would mitigate the binding problem by giving the climber something easier to grab onto to pull onto the hitch knot, especially on descent. I seen them being used with rope grabs on lanyards, but never with a Rope Wrench or HH2. I suppose it would be nicer if such a donut/ring were mid line attachable, but either way would probably work.

Jehinten · Apr 1, 2018

John@TreeXP said:
Has anyone tried using a wooden ring/donut above the hitch knot, to alleviate binding? When hitch knots binds, I would think a wooden donut-like ring would mitigate the binding problem by giving the climber something easier to grab onto to pull onto the hitch knot, especially on descent. I seen them being used with rope grabs on lanyards, but never with a Rope Wrench or HH2. I suppose it would be nicer if such a donut/ring were mid line attachable, but either way would probably work.

I believe @Brocky and maybe a couple of other people use a system like that, although I am not sure that it is because of the hitch binding.

Brocky · Apr 1, 2018

The Cinch Samaritans, they help on small diameter hitch cords, and would probably help to descend,for that brief time it takes for the Wrench to engage. They also help to keep your gloves out of the hitch. An anodized aluminum one, that's midline attachable would be nice.

Birdyman88 · Apr 12, 2018

I just starting messing around SRT and was having binding issues. I use RW, ice tail 24" eye2eye in 4/1 michoacan, and NE SB. My system has very little setback.
I casually noticed that the bind was most prevalent after advancing. After descent, issue not as common.
I am still trying to dial in all the hitch variables. BUT, whoever suggested bumping the hitch until the wrench engages probably just solved the majority of my problem. I can see it clearly in my head and it correlates to why the hitch binds after ascent/advance, but not during descent. I will test tomorrow, but I know it's gonna work.
Ironically, this is one of those times when hitch setback can be a good thing. Though, I'd rather have no setback and just massage the hitch as needed .. at least for now.

Rob Stafari · Apr 12, 2018

I was having binding issues when throwing my fully loaded toolbelt on over the treemotion and adding all that extra weight. Switched to 9.3 epicord and a michoacan varient... problem solved. It didn't help that we've been using a variety of different access lines that are up for the duration of the job through the rain, snow, ice, etc. Some days it would be a little harder to get the hitch to grab with the 26"/shorty tether, but once set up there weren't any more binding issues.

islandarb · Apr 12, 2018

Birdyman88 said:
I just starting messing around SRT and was having binding issues. I use RW, ice tail 24" eye2eye in michoacan, and NE SB. My system has very little setback.
I casually noticed that the bind was most prevalent after advancing. After descent, issue not as common.
I am still trying to dial in all the hitch variables. BUT, whoever suggested bumping the hitch until the wrench engages probably just solved the majority of my problem. I can see it clearly in my head and it correlates to why the hitch binds after ascent/advance, but not during descent. I will test tomorrow, but I know it's gonna work.
Ironically, this is one of those times when hitch setback can be a good thing. Though, I'd rather have no setback and just massage the hitch as needed .. at least for now.

Hate to say this but ditch the short icetail. Get a 28" epicord 9.3 and fly you michoacan. You should not be bumping anything. Slow crap. I presume you have regular length tether. That will solve your issues.

Brocky · Apr 12, 2018

Hey Rob, would you post a picture of the Michoacán variant that you are using?

moss · Apr 12, 2018

Yep, Icetail has always bound up for me, too grabby. And on a completely separate note, I just ordered another hank of Sampson Warpspeed II 3/8", I've been running it with my wrench for a year plus now, love it. Michoacan.
-AJ

islandarb · Apr 12, 2018

moss said:
Yep, Icetail has always bound up for me, too grabby. And on a completely separate note, I just ordered another hank of Sampson Warpspeed II 3/8", I've been running it with my wrench for a year plus now, love it. Michoacan.
-AJ

Andrew icetail is so 2010.... MRS....binding mofo SRT....it is yale or tuefel for me...last long as fack and the memory makes a perfect hitch after work in....

Birdyman88 · Apr 12, 2018

New cord was ordered almost 3 weeks ago - I won't mention their name. Called Monday to find the status and they said ETA was gonna be like May 1st on all 4 varieties. WTF. Canceled and ordered from another place, it's on the way.

islandarb · Apr 12, 2018

This is the mofo ticket...dope AF

DSMc · Apr 12, 2018

That is a nice looking setup!

islandarb · Apr 12, 2018

C

DSMc said:
That is a nice looking setup!

Compact Dave for 0 sitback like a runner and pretty flighty....easy to get wayyyyy out there .....lol

fall_risk · Apr 13, 2018

John@TreeXP said:
Has anyone tried using a wooden ring/donut above the hitch knot, to alleviate binding? When hitch knots binds, I would think a wooden donut-like ring would mitigate the binding problem by giving the climber something easier to grab onto to pull onto the hitch knot, especially on descent. I seen them being used with rope grabs on lanyards, but never with a Rope Wrench or HH2. I suppose it would be nicer if such a donut/ring were mid line attachable, but either way would probably work.

Second smallest x ring ftw:

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

rope-a-dope · Apr 13, 2018

Birdyman88 said:
I just starting messing around SRT and was having binding issues. I use RW, ice tail 24" eye2eye in michoacan, and NE SB. My system has very little setback.
I casually noticed that the bind was most prevalent after advancing. After descent, issue not as common.
I am still trying to dial in all the hitch variables. BUT, whoever suggested bumping the hitch until the wrench engages probably just solved the majority of my problem. I can see it clearly in my head and it correlates to why the hitch binds after ascent/advance, but not during descent. I will test tomorrow, but I know it's gonna work.
Ironically, this is one of those times when hitch setback can be a good thing. Though, I'd rather have no setback and just massage the hitch as needed .. at least for now.

Instead of bumping the hitch down to get the wrench to engage, just push the wrench up a bit right before you "sit" after acsent. Hitch will stay smooth. You really want the wrench to start to bend the rope and the hitch to grab at the same time for best performance.
Thats why swing has a short stiffy...synergy of simultaneous friction...

islandarb · Apr 13, 2018

@fall_risk who is that climbing in that vid..I know those gloves....that is huge sitback....that euc looked like a climber's fun house...... swings like crazy......

Birdyman88 · Apr 13, 2018

I replaced the 24" icetail (actually 23.5") with a 28" (actually 28.5") today, and after playing around went with 5/1 michoacan rather the 4/1. The 28" tail had been broken in fairly well, the 24" was a newer build. HUGE improvement - absolutely no binding. Rope-a-dope, you're right though, with the 28" length, I had just enough sit back that the hitch engaged more in sync with the wrench. I have some new cord coming, so I'm sure I'll find something better than the ice tail, but it's working for now.