A Bad Day at Boutte Tree, Inc.

tough call on who is responsible in the lawyers eyes. both the climber's company and the crane ops company will be dragged into court if damage or injury occur. the climber and op working together protect each other, property, and equip.
 
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Praise God for the results...

Thank you for sharing.

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Not sure if you saw the pic but a crane went through a house, not the best result. This was more of a every action has a reaction event. I don't think god has much sympathy for me when I destroy it's creations with efficiency. Anyway, thanks mr. boutte for posting made me think alot about crane work.
 
Tierson:

Thanks for story. And the rest of you with similar stories. It would seem there are problems here and it is becoming obvious to me what that problems are. I see two main problems: trees and their parts weigh more than people think and as arborists most of our techniques involve swinging tree parts around or bombing out tree parts, or directionally felling spars. Some of these techniques leak into crane work, usually with bad results. Dynamic loads and cranes do not mix well together. I'll retell a story here that was told to me a couple of weeks ago by Judy from Data Weighing Systems. A grape farmer wanted to weigh his grapes in the field so he bought a load sensor with plenty of capacity and rigged it up on his grape hauling rig. He ruined the fancy (expensive) load sensor by leaving it hooked up as he transported his grapes. He exceeded the capacity of the scale with dynamic loads every time he hit a bump! Every time we tip tree part (even just a little bit) we are creating a dynamic load. If the pick moves after the cut is made a dynamic load is involved. We count on our ground people to do the right thing with the Porty to decrease the effects of dynamic loads on the rigging system and we bring that mentality into crane work and flip it upside down (no pun intended, poor choice of words) and expect the crane operator to do similar things. If you rig it so the CO needs to do something as you cut, you should rethink and rerig. Getting a bigger crane allows one to make bigger mistakes?
 
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Praise God for the results...

Thank you for sharing.

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Not sure if you saw the pic but a crane went through a house, not the best result. This was more of a every action has a reaction event. I don't think god has much sympathy for me when I destroy it's creations with efficiency. Anyway, thanks mr. boutte for posting made me think alot about crane work.

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From what I understand no person was injured, crew member or bystander/customer. A broken house is a minor detail considering that. We are blessed by the reality check of what we're working with.
 
When I read this, "starting with a 3000 pound piece. The Crane capacity at this radius was 3800." I thought, crap, that was close.

Then Jeff wrote this:

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In the steel rigging/heavy lift industry a critical lift is one that meets or exceeds 80% of the cranes rated capacity. His 3000lbs lift was 78.9% of rated capacity.

Read the osha requirements on critical lifts.

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Jeff, I didn't read the OSHA requirements, but as far as steel rigging, up to 80% is "normal" or acceptable for safe working?

In tree work, I try to take a pick that I think is 60% or less. usually shoot for 50%, because we are guessing weights on the fly and our picks are already up in the air and can have movement if not balanced correctly.

If I take a pick and I'm at 80%, (which is rare) I get very upset with myself.

Picking from the ground is different.

Now, lets discuss this.

We use a SWL factor of 10:1 for climbing.

Rigging was 5:1 but often now many rigging products is showing 10:1.

Isn't the crane part of a rigging system? Shouldn't a pick that shows it was 79% viewed as dangerous or getting dangerous.

I don't want to see us held at a 10:1 SWL for cranes. But if we followed that rule, I bet fewer cranes would be flipped.

The mentality would have to be changed over the years. It would happen, slowly, it would.

Now 5:1 wouldn't be too bad.

3800 lb capacity, pick at 10:1 = only 300 lbs. That sucks.
3800 lb capacity, pick at 5:1 = 760 lbs. hmmm. That still seems to stink. But if we followed this rule, I bet we'd be a heck of a lot safer with our cranes.

3800 lb capacity, I shoot for 50%, = 1900lbs.

Just thinking outloud here and asking everyone to think.

Thanks for starting this thread.
 
X, Im not 100% sure but that safety factor should already be built into the chart by the manufacturer. (5:1 10:1 or 2:1 I dont know but its there).

As with parts of the anatomy, everyone has an opinion and here is mine. They say when an accident happens you ask a series of why questions. You start out with the obvious question Why did the crane flip? Well it was overloaded with a dynamic load. Why was it over loaded? Because the climber and the crane op misjudged the load. Why dynamic? The use of one sling below the center of gravity. Why was the Load misjudged? Why was one sling used? You get the picture. Not knowing anyone in the situation I did this why why why from what Tierson wrote. And this is where I went;

The crew was unsure of each others own skills (even though they knew about them) and didnt speak up when estimating the weight. Everyone needs to be able to speak their mind when in this situation and not be riticuled or chastized for what they think. If the crane op had said "I dont like the rigging" or "I think it weighs too much" the out come could have been much better. It sounded like they were in a hurry for some reason wanting to get the job done, picking close to the chart, and using one sling below the crotch wood (Im sorry, but thats lazy). They could have notched the tree higher and put two slings on and possibly got away with the over load (just speculation).

Having been close to this same issue twice before these were my observations at the time as well. Communication between seasoned crane op and green climber was poor in both situations, and the rush rush rush of our job caused us to misjudge and misrig pieces that could have cost lives and property.

Tierson, I am super glad that no one got hurt, its the best outcome you could have and you have a grasp on the problems. We can all learn, change, and never see it happen again... But I guess thats asking too much. Thanks for sharing.
 
the 50% rule would definately make things safer. would be tough because most crane renters are trying to get as much out of the crane as possible. i applaud your theory however.
 
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X, Im not 100% sure but that safety factor should already be built into the chart by the manufacturer. (5:1 10:1 or 2:1 I dont know but...

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No, tipping is not, from what I've seen. If I push mine to 100%, sometimes the opposite outrigger will be lifted a little. Come to think of it did it last week bringing up logs down a steep hill; for another tree company. They were on the ground, so I used the ground and would stand near opposite outrigger when I would get near 100% on my remote. Outrigger would lift 2" when I went to 100% + a smidge, before it shuts me down.

My brothers stick boom truck, lifts outriggers around 100% too.
 
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X, Im not 100% sure but that safety factor should already be built into the chart by the manufacturer. (5:1 10:1 or 2:1 I dont know but its there).

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Most load charts are rated to 85% of tipping(75% for tracked machines).

This should not be considered a safety factor, when the manufacturer rates these charts the ratings are for absolute perfect conditions; perfectly level, perfect pre-engineered footing, a crane setup exactly like it would be at the factory with no extra accessories or blocking or slings etc., no wind, sunny day, and many more perfect conditions we never see in the real world.

If you want a load chart with a safety factor built-in then you need to hire an engineer to make one for you. Engineers do this quite often for cranes with specific jobs, like a crane on a barge should have a load chart with a safety factor of 2 to 1.

Most load charts also have something called a stability line, what this line indicates is when you over load the crane above this line it is likely to have a structural failure, below the line if you overload it you're likely to have a stability failure, a roll over.

So if you are above the stability line and overload it, but nothing happens, after the operator cleans out his shorts, everybody on the crew would probably say "wow that was close, but it didn't flip" and continue on without really learning the very hard lesson. That is until it happens below the line.
 
thanks classic, i was hoping you would read and contribute.

So, what do you guys think?

OSHA and no one has brought up a SWL factor for crane picks concerning arborist work.

Here is the problem. Some climbers are spot on with their tree material weights.

Others are terrible at it.

You can't fix bad weight estimations.

I guess you have to regulate yourself with knowing your own skill level.

For me, I like the 50 and 60%. Because occationally I mess up and it might be 80% pick. (about once or twice a year).

It sure is nice having two good minds on a crane removal, that's for sure. It's extremely comfortable when i hire my brother and we have his headsets to communicate and we talk about each pick, crane capacity and estimated weight before the cut.
 
I will always stay within 50%-60% for my picks until I get to the butt log which will then be around 80%.

My CO has been doing tree removals for years and is a great operator who doesn't like to push the picks too much.
 
I say definately stay within 50-60% even on butt wood, thats the thing about tree work, once a cut is made, the crane operator is married to it"For worse or for better", its not like he can set it back down and say "sorry guys looks like you need to rent a bigger crane".
 
Very good points James and even though that I’m always careful about the weight of my picks and have never had a problem, staying between 50%-60% is a wise idea.

Always best to err on the side of caution and besides, in the big scheme of things, a few extra picks are not a big deal by any means.
 
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So, what do you guys think?

OSHA and no one has brought up a SWL factor for crane picks concerning arborist work.



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ANSI Z133-2012 5.7.9
....The suspended load should not exceed 80 percent of the load chart capacity of the crane.
 
May have been a severe accident/death (operator) if the house did not catch the boom. But at the same time it did help, it prevented (?) the op from improving the situation of the crane...ie sucking in some stick or booming up or moving the boom laterally?

Bit of a comedy of errors here without the comedy. Poor mid piece hook up causing the shock load flop...miscalculation of weight putting you in a marginal position or who knows...maybe it would have gone over without the inept hook up. Inexperienced op and you not there to monitor.

Like said...could have been worse but all this warm fuzzy pat on the back for your venting to lessen your guilt doesn't sit well with me. In my 40 years of tree craning I have never tipped one esp even come close over a house and I have been involved with every decision made and the last big back yard one over a roof I did was yesterday. Suck it up and be a man and quit screwing up. TCIA can't be on your every jobsite.
 
3 years ago we were taking down a big poplar behind a house. It was a friday and my crane op was getting his crane out of a shop after some motor repairs. So we started at 10 or 11. At about 4 I went up to the top of the tree which was biforkated and set the strap up high and came down to make my cut. As is my norm I indicated to the op where I was about to cut, he pointed down to indicate more. However if I came down he would get both sides of the fork when I had planned on giving him one side. I had the guys stop chipping and told him that both sides were way bigger than anything we had taken all day, he said it would be fine. I cut it (silly) and the pick started to move down and away from the crane.... Buzzer was going off and the ground guys both ran to grab the back of the crane which was going up in the air (silly also) .... As the pick started to swing back op boomed up and was able to get it under control. Prior to this I always defered to the op on picks but no more. I figure that was my wake up call, now when deciding where to cut I just tell the op I dont like to push it and am in no hurry, which is what I think was the root cause of this incident, he didnt want to work late that day...
 
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Prior to this I always defered to the op on picks but no more. I figure that was my wake up call, now when deciding where to cut I just tell the op I dont like to push it and am in no hurry,.

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X2!

Learning that lesson early is best, all around!

When it's my butt on the line?

I call the shots, or the CO can fold up and get lost!

Particularly young hotshot CO's from Alabama, trying to show off in California!

Crane work can be incredibly dangerous with CO's that have no hands on tree removal experience calling the shots on any pick.

Going conservative on all picks as a golden rule in terms of the crane's load chart max is a "SHALL" do in my book of inviolable rules....now.

Know when to kick them off the job and not let them rile you into giving them a hard lesson on YOUR jobsite out of pure spite.

It ain't worth it.

jomoco
 
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