6-year boy killed in chipper accident

I have a six year old and would NEVER let her within 25 feet of a running chipper let alone feed brush. I think the father was incredibly negligent but won't go as far to say it wasn't an accident. To say it wasn't an accident is to say that this is what the father intended to happen.
 
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On my way into work this morning I heard something on one of the radio stations about making donations for the family. My question on that is simply... why? The kid is gone, the father who is responsible for the accident can still work... that is of course unless criminal charges are filed, but I doubt that will be the case.



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Hey HL,
The guy's kid just went through a friggen brush chipper!
You expect him to just go back to work like nothing happened?!
 
I certainly don't expect him to go back to work right away, however usually when I hear of donations it seems to coincide with things like college fund for the children, help with huge medical bills, etc. etc. not the short term day to day.
 
Letting a 6 year old feed a chipper is the most stupid thing I've ever heard.

This story is just another reminder to myself why my son will not be doing treework.

From my time in treework it's taught me an important lesson, and the lesson is this .....

I will actively discourage my son from doing treework of any kind, he wont learn to use a chainsaw and bring trees down, he wont learn to climb trees.

He'll hopefully find a really good job and career doing something that he enjoys and is paid well for. But if I have anything to do with it....it wont be treework.
 
I don't mind if my son decides to do tree work but he won't. He wants a career in health care. He worked with me quite a bit starting at 11, he's 17 now, one of the best ropers I've ever had ever. He likes to climb stuff, not just trees.

I think it is very unlikely the kid was supposed to be feeding a chipper. More likely he was just trying to do what the big boys were doing. I don't think he should've been on the site but he's not my kid so it's not my business.
 
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Letting a 6 year old feed a chipper is the most stupid thing I've ever heard.

This story is just another reminder to myself why my son will not be doing treework.

From my time in treework it's taught me an important lesson, and the lesson is this .....

I will actively discourage my son from doing treework of any kind, he wont learn to use a chainsaw and bring trees down, he wont learn to climb trees.

He'll hopefully find a really good job and career doing something that he enjoys and is paid well for. But if I have anything to do with it....it wont be treework.

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Same here Grover, I intentionally kept my three children as far away from my work as I possibly could precisely because of its inherent dangers and the bloodshed I've witnessed in it firsthand over my career.

The closest any of my kids got to me at work was watching a few field day seminars I gave for the Professional Tree Care Association in Balboa Park. And they stayed far away from the action with my wife in the general audience.

Other than those few occasions they never got anywhere close to me at work other than Youtube!

Both my sons now work for Sony Corp, and my daughter attends SFSU majoring in philosophy of all things.

jomoco
 
@jomoco and grover, I agree with you both. Not too sure if my kids thinking I am nuts or crazy doing my job is something I am proud of. But, doing school projects with them and giving presentations to their class is allot of fun. IMO, teaching them the science of what we do and the reasons we do certain things is a safe way to introduce them to arborculture.
My son has held and throttled up a running saw, the only difference was I took off the chain and was holding the saw with him. It gave him a chance to recognize the power of it in his hands. His quote was "Dad, you need to be careful of that...it is really strong." He has sat on my lap while mowing our lawn and I let him zig zag, criss cross all he wants, but he is always wearing his head PPE on the mower.
I am not sure if comparing bicycles/swimming to chainsaws/chippers is a apples to apples comparison. My saws run at 9500-12,500 RPMs and my chipper has 130 HP. None the less, PPE is worn for the apples to apples comparison for all of the above.
This post was started with the loss of a little man and it has brought up some good points. The other post that has allot of the same points is valuable as well.
 
That's really sad someone wouldn't want their child to work at the same work they do. It's really good work and it doesn't have to be dangerous. I hear ya on the low pay though.

Weird eh? An essential service requiring some of the highest skill with the highest physical demands given the lowest pay. If you go beyond the amazing skills to do technical removals you could add expensive education and knowledge to be a well rounded arborist again earning low pay. No wonder the world's fcked. I'd do better selling candles and artsy dust collectors from a high rent storefront. Or scamming financial services.
 
To me what's sad is that there's not a modern commercial sawmill today that doesn't run every log it mills through a metal detector first. Why? Because of the expense of downtime and replacing damaged blades.

Yet in our industry where whole tree chippers routinely gobble up logs up to 20 inch diameters that can easily contain embedded lags, throughbolts etc, not to mention 3-4 groundmen a year, no requirements even as practical as mandating a two man minimum to operate these WTC's are in effect, much less any metal detecting technologies to prevent the inevitable drum and blades flying in all directions when metal meets metal at high rpms.

What's even sadder is TCIA siding with chipper manufacturers on this life and death safety issue so they can continue raking in big advertising bucks every dang month at the expense of dead groundmen, their widows, sons, daughters and friends.

If you follow the ridiculous rationale these WTC mfrs use to justify their ongoing defense of the status quo, chain brakes, saw chaps etc would have never been mandated. Instead the saw mfrs could have simply had instruction manuals and stickers on their saws saying don't do this and don't do that or it could cost you serious injury up to and including death.

That's friggin sad in my opinion, and just one of the many reasons I intentionally kept my children as far away from this dangerous profession as I possibly could.

Jomoco
 
@boreality, you are right that this doesn't have to be as dangerous as it is. If my children decide (on their own) to follow my path, it is fine with me. I choose to introduce it to them in a lower impact way. I also choose to introduce them to labor that won't put them at such a high risk.
As for the pay scale, it is a shame that is the reality. Anyone can go to a store and buy a chainsaw and title themselves as a arborist. This is a direct reflection on the a few associations that need to step up.
 
I remember when I was taking my CTSP class and someone asked, how we can get the point across to workers on just how dangerous a chipper can be.

Out the blue, I just said why don't you throw an aerial rescue dummy in the shute and show them what can happen to a person?

Everyone laughed, but the instructor was not too happy with me. I wasn't trying to be a smart a$$ but sometimes a visual is stronger than any words in a classroom can be.

The sad truth is, we all know that chipper accidents will continue to have, as I just don't see a way to make them 100% safe, but God I hope that I never hear of another child being killed by one.
 
100 percent safe?

Who's asking for that?

Nothing on this planet's 100 percent safe for crying out loud!

How about just mandating a two man minimum policy for WTC's?

That alone could have saved this child's life!

And don't tell me these dang mfrs can't produce a WTC with an integrated metal detector or RFID safety system because I know they can. And I also know why they won't do it until the Feds or state officials force them to.

TCIA is to cowardly to do it regardless of how many tree workers get eaten alive. And that's a black eye they'll never live down because they're a bunch of money hungry bruncheon hypocrites in the pockets of WTC mfrs!

You can't even get into an airport, courthouse or high school these days without going through a metal detector, not to mention a damn inanimate log through a sawmill.

Jomoco
 
Jomoco,

You've repeated your stance about how you feel that chippers can be made safer.

The audience here can't do anything about that. This is old discussion.

Since you feel so passionately about this issue why don't you follow the lead set by Mrs. Ethel M. Hugg. Do you recognize that name? Get a copy of the Z133 and read the intro.

Change is not likely going to happen if anyone stands on the corner to shout from their soapbox. It takes more.

I've stated my position on this issue in other threads. I'm comfortable with my stance.

If I could have a Magic Safety Wand to wave over the profession...with one wish...I'd ask that everyone wore helmets. Starting to wear helmets is the gateway to changing to safer work practices.
 
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Jomoco,

You've repeated your stance about how you feel that chippers can be made safer.

The audience here can't do anything about that. This is old discussion.

Since you feel so passionately about this issue why don't you follow the lead set by Mrs. Ethel M. Hugg. Do you recognize that name? Get a copy of the Z133 and read the intro.

Change is not likely going to happen if anyone stands on the corner to shout from their soapbox. It takes more.

I've stated my position on this issue in other threads. I'm comfortable with my stance.

If I could have a Magic Safety Wand to wave over the profession...with one wish...I'd ask that everyone wore helmets. Starting to wear helmets is the gateway to changing to safer work practices.

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I read your post Tom. You state the audience "can't" do anything about this situation.

Well I don't believe that for one second. There are lots of TCIA members reading this forum. And it's entirely possible that if each one of them took 5minutes to e-mail Peter Gerstenberger urging him to actively support enacting a WTC two man minimum mandate, it would go along way I n helping TCIA man up to their stated mission of increasing tree worker safety in this dangerous profession.

I'm the one on topic here Tom.

You're the one speaking of waving magic wands.

Jomoco
 
Jomoco,

If you're so passionate about the issue...take it up. Do like Mrs. Hugg did and make something happen.

YOur wish is for chippers to be safer. I'm using mine to put helmets on everyone all of the time. In my experience people who start wearing helmets start working safer. Its a beginning...not the end.

Your position on chipper safety is known. I applaud your stand but don't feel that my time or effort on that issue is warranted. There are other things that take my time. YOu, on the other hand, seem to have this as your single minded crusade. Good for you! Make it happen.

You have the opportunity to be involved in the next revision of Z133. The revision starts in October of this year in Baltimore. There's no time like the present to start you campaign. I'm looking forward to seeing you at the meeting next October.
 
Fair enough Tom.

Meantime, I'd like to make TCIA members and every other arborist concerned about this life and death issue aware that the number one recommendation of every federal and state agencies that investigate these WTC fatalities, is to mandate a two operator minimum when chipping brush with a whole tree chipper.

This begs the question of why our industry go between with the feds, one Mr. Peter Gerstenberger of TCIA, continues to ignore these officials recommendations, and support the mfrs of WTC's position of maintaining the current status quo, despite the growing number of WTC fatalities?

Indeed TCIA publishes chipper safety articles by their expert on the issue, one DR. John Ball, who simply parrots the MFRS recommendations, while completely ignoring the federal and state officials recommendations to mandate a WTC two man minimum!

Which of these disparate recommendations do you.guys, my fellow arborists, think will be most effective in reducing the number of WTC fatalities in this industry?

Why won't Gerstenberger get behind a WTC two man minimum mandate that can save tree worker lives?

Jomoco
 
As a matter of professional practice, totally against company policy to chip solo. It would make sense to have it as a rule or a law universally. I could be one of the other several hundred rules that people do not follow that result in injuries or fatalities. To have a workforce that will follow a rule is of extreme value. How do we arrive at that? Make more rules? Heck, I can't remember all of them now...

Train!!
Educate!!
Enforce!!!
Did I mention ENFORCE?

Chippers, for what they do, are pretty safe. Thousands of operating hours every day without incident. Trouble comes when someone does something not smart or against the advice of the manufacturer. Often we do not investigate the deaths and get the message out as to the cause. I can think of one this year where the guy tried to mix rope and chipper... Duh. I have seen where the rope went into the chipper. It is a mess. Whether it is his ground help's inattention, his own inattention, the companies lack of training, blah, blah, blah. No offence to the guy but you can't fix stupid. You can, however, put him in the poor house and make him stay out of the industry by fining him till he can't afford to bid a job. Usually the insurance rates we pay take care of carelessness when a firm is responsible and carries it. They (government) will not even chase down those employ and carry no comp insurance.

They will fine this guy initially in the six figures. I'd bet in the end, he pays a settlement of 4 figures (this happened in VA last year over a youth chipper death). The loss will destroy his life and the money is not really relevant. BEFORE this incident happened would a 4 figure fine have caused a change in behaviour if it happened a couple of times? I don't know, but I am pretty sure having to stand on a dead man plate to force standing in the correct position while the chipper eats a limb (or I could just put a block of wood on it...) WON'T WORK.

For those that are professionals - the challenge is to follow ALL THE RULES ALL THE TIME and to take the threats and the verbal abuse and basic garbage that you get when you stop to tell someone what rules they are breaking. And YES, they will threaten violence almost EVERY time.
 
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