30 ton National counterweight?

dbl612 said:
my comment was that if he jabbed the additional counterweight properly and mounted it as factory would he would have no problem with annual inspection. he is still governed by the existing chip in the LMI which has not been altered.
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Right, and if he does it as well as he says the inspector will look at it and say"wow, the factory stuck that counter weight on there but forgot to put in the heavier load chart"
 
While I've been waiting to hear back from someone about the counterweight, I got involved in another mod to the 30110a, sort of, actually more to the Mack carrier. It took longer then I thought, and cost more, but it came out pretty good I think. It will have no effect on the crane operation, but will make some of the jobs I go on a lot better, more enjoyable anyway.

I'm wrapping it up tomorrow and I'll post a few pictures, and can pretty much guarantee it won't be a mod seen before.

If I made a counterweight copy, it'd be a carbon copy, so should fly through any inspection I guess, only 8 bolts and all easy to get at. You sure about them being lead Classic? Not pig iron? I see that lead is 1.58 times heavier at the same volume then iron/steel.
 
Haven't done any in depth research on materials used, but it's heavier than steel. Don't remember the exact numbers but when I calculated for the Elliott CW(in steel) it was around 2K and it needs to weigh 5k.
 
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Lead is about 1.4 times as dense as steel. The numbers will vary, because in actual use, whatever is used is likely to be a alloy.
 
Courierguy said:
While I've been waiting to hear back from someone about the counterweight, I got involved in another mod to the 30110a, sort of, actually more to the Mack carrier. It took longer then I thought, and cost more, but it came out pretty good I think. It will have no effect on the crane operation, but will make some of the jobs I go on a lot better, more enjoyable anyway.

I'm wrapping it up tomorrow and I'll post a few pictures, and can pretty much guarantee it won't be a mod seen before.

If I made a counterweight copy, it'd be a carbon copy, so should fly through any inspection I guess, only 8 bolts and all easy to get at. You sure about them being lead Classic? Not pig iron? I see that lead is 1.58 times heavier at the same volume then iron/steel.
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the counterweights o nationals are made out of flame cut steel plate.
 
I called Kirby -Smith, and they have sold that 30 ton. Not surprised, that looked like a pretty sweet deal. So, no help from them. Then I got ahold of CRW and talked to a sales guy about the new 30 ton they have, and found out something interesting. He said the counter weight was a cost saving measure, cheaper then installing a front stabilizer. I then asked him to check into getting one....and he gave me the strong impression that it is only available as original factory equipment, I doubt I'll hear back from him though he did say he'd check into it. That CW equipped new rig is on the east coast, too far to go to eyeball it. So I guess I'll forget about it for now, unless I can lay eyes on one (and a tape measure) to make a exact replica, it'd sure be nice if there was a real live person at the National headquarters I could just call and get a simple straightforward answer.12-10-15 008.webp

My other project: I had a big gap between the hydraulic tank and the back of the cab, just the way the rig was set up. All it was used for was to carry a ladder in a small tray, I came up with another use. The bike is a electric assist folding fat tired one, (it will fit in a small hatchback when fully folded, I just fold the handlebars down for crane storage) that I will use as a crane dingy. It takes less then a minute to get it out and ride off at 20 mph, without pedaling if I want, though pedaling a bit greatly increases the range (10 to 25 miles). I will be able to charge it in the crane, via the 2 KW inverter I also installed today, it only needs 300 watts. There's a lot of times when I can use a transportation, just a few miles, and I didn't tow the car behind, this will fill that need. Plus it's pretty fun! Those fat tires at low pressure make it good in snow also. With the door closed it blends right in, pretty stealthy.
 

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Yeah, it was easier them trying to get one ready made and then modify it to fit. I had to notch out one end for the exhaust elbow and a couple other things. By notching I was able to offset it to the pass. side more and maintain my access to the truck cab when I step off the crane bed. I don't want to have to climb clear down to the ground then back up to the cab, it's much handier to just step off the bed onto the fuel tank step and into the cab. I gave a fair bit of thought to how much the rubber mounted cab moves relative to the hard mounted other stuff, and kept about 3" of clearance. I already put 100 miles of driving on it and it's like it's not even there. Doesn't obstruct vision or access, and it was otherwise wasted space so I figured what the hell! I guess I have a little more counterweight, when working directly rearward, anyway Ha ha.....
 
Amazing, I just got a call back from CRW, the counterweight IS readily available, one phone call to National and a few minutes was all it took I was told! That and a couple weeks of calling around on my part. $3550.00, a lot for a chunk of metal less then 2000 lbs (he was unsure of the exact weight) but actually cheaper then I expected. 60 days out, plus freight from a associated arm of their company in Colorado. I'm sending the down payment off in a few days, I'll report back when it arrives. I doubt the freight lines can screw this load up.
 
Courierguy said:
I called Kirby -Smith, and they have sold that 30 ton. Not surprised, that looked like a pretty sweet deal. So, no help from them. Then I got ahold of CRW and talked to a sales guy about the new 30 ton they have, and found out something interesting. He said the counter weight was a cost saving measure, cheaper then installing a front stabilizer. I then asked him to check into getting one....and he gave me the strong impression that it is only available as original factory equipment, I doubt I'll hear back from him though he did say he'd check into it. That CW equipped new rig is on the east coast, too far to go to eyeball it. So I guess I'll forget about it for now, unless I can lay eyes on one (and a tape measure) to make a exact replica, it'd sure be nice if there was a real live person at the National headquarters I could just call and get a simple straightforward answer.View attachment 34850
very nice fabrication.
My other project: I had a big gap between the hydraulic tank and the back of the cab, just the way the rig was set up. All it was used for was to carry a ladder in a small tray, I came up with another use. The bike is a electric assist folding fat tired one, (it will fit in a small hatchback when fully folded, I just fold the handlebars down for crane storage) that I will use as a crane dingy. It takes less then a minute to get it out and ride off at 20 mph, without pedaling if I want, though pedaling a bit greatly increases the range (10 to 25 miles). I will be able to charge it in the crane, via the 2 KW inverter I also installed today, it only needs 300 watts. There's a lot of times when I can use a transportation, just a few miles, and I didn't tow the car behind, this will fill that need. Plus it's pretty fun! Those fat tires at low pressure make it good in snow also. With the door closed it blends right in, pretty stealthy.
Click to expand...
 
Courierguy said:
Yeah, it was easier them trying to get one ready made and then modify it to fit. I had to notch out one end for the exhaust elbow and a couple other things. By notching I was able to offset it to the pass. side more and maintain my access to the truck cab when I step off the crane bed. I don't want to have to climb clear down to the ground then back up to the cab, it's much handier to just step off the bed onto the fuel tank step and into the cab. I gave a fair bit of thought to how much the rubber mounted cab moves relative to the hard mounted other stuff, and kept about 3" of clearance. I already put 100 miles of driving on it and it's like it's not even there. Doesn't obstruct vision or access, and it was otherwise wasted space so I figured what the hell! I guess I have a little more counterweight, when working directly rearward, anyway Ha ha.....
Click to expand...
is the rear mount on that mack cab air bag?
 
Courierguy said:
Amazing, I just got a call back from CRW, the counterweight IS readily available, one phone call to National and a few minutes was all it took I was told! That and a couple weeks of calling around on my part. $3550.00, a lot for a chunk of metal less then 2000 lbs (he was unsure of the exact weight) but actually cheaper then I expected. 60 days out, plus freight from a associated arm of their company in Colorado. I'm sending the down payment off in a few days, I'll report back when it arrives. I doubt the freight lines can screw this load up.
Click to expand...
freight lines could break an anvil with a feather! lol.
 
I get a lot of solar modules via the freight lines, and compared to shipping them the counterweight will be somewhat less worry some, but yeah, they could screw up a wet dream.

I have backed off on the remote option since I found it means losing the free swing feature. I haven't had a single oscillation/wiggle after a rotation for some time now, I would like to have BOTH the remote and the free swing, but it seems like that's not possible? Maybe some manually controlled valve so you had EITHER the remote (and no free swing), or the free swing but no remote. I don't know enough to do that but that would be ideal.
 
Courierguy said:
I would like to have BOTH the remote and the free swing, but it seems like that's not possible? Maybe some manually controlled valve so you had EITHER the remote (and no free swing), or the free swing but no remote. I don't know enough to do that but that would be ideal.
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Our Elliott has a switch on the dash for that, we don't own a remote but the switch is there for it.
 
The National also has a blank space on the cab panel labeled "remote", but my understanding is this doesn't change the fact that once the hydraulic system is modded for the remote, the free swing feature is lost.

db1612 I see the rear of the Granite cab has two big air bag looking things under it, or some big rubber things anyway. A good thing I guess, as it rides so rough now that I'd hate to ride in it without them!
 
Courierguy said:
The National also has a blank space on the cab panel labeled "remote", but my understanding is this doesn't change the fact that once the hydraulic system is modded for the remote, the free swing feature is lost.
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Does your national have a switch for free swing? Elliott and national seem very similar structurally anyway, the dealer told us that if we flipped the free swing switch off it would be like a normal boom truck w/o free swing.

I can see why they wouldn't have free swing combo'd with the remote.
 
I finally heard back from the Boise area National rep, he says he can get the counterweight for a couple hundred bucks cheaper, and if he pays the freight to get it to Boise I'll just drive over (clear across the state but still just one day there and back) and save even more. He went on to make the point, in his voice mail, that the chart STAYS THE SAME, the counter weight is for resolving stability issues that arise when the 13110a is mounted on a truck with aluminum wheels and/or no crane cab or OTHER NORMALLY INSTALLED WEIGHT.

This rang a bell with me as my crane was built built up by the metal works (stainless food processing fab work) company that bought both the truck and the crane new, and then being as handy as they are, joined them together. One resulting feature is that they didn't use a conventional steel flatbed overlaying the crane torsion box. My rig has the top of the torsion box as the center of the bed you walk on, they basically fabbed two narrow beds that butt into the torsion box, making one flat bed, these narrow sides are framed 100% with stainless (pretty cool, they had it laying around) with wood decking for the top. I really like this as the bed height is lower when climbing in and out, plus more headroom under the boom. But.....probably less weight then a full flatbed, for sure even. This no doubt accounts for the slight instability I have felt at time in my butt sensor when working at about a 45 degree angle off to the side, even with the LMI telling me it's cool, my sensor was saying "whoa". Working anywhere off the back and over the front, the feeling is rock solid, as it should be. So, no extra expense in resetting the load chart/LMI, that's a good thing, and just the same stability my sensor tells me I have in the other areas of the chart should be the result. Ordering Monday.
 
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