>15 pound saws--independent tie-in for use in tree

southsoundtree

southsoundtree

Been here much more than a while
Location
Olympia, WA
I'm investigating a big saw for a crane removal job, greater than 15 pounds. How do you all tie this in to the tree and move the saw TIP if working on a spar with a crane? I'd be taking 22 or 44' pieces mostly, maybe some smaller ones.
 
From the Z133:

6.3.3 When an arborist or other worker is working in a tree other than from an aerial device, chain saws weighing more than 15 pounds (6.8 kg) service weight shall be made safe against falling (i.e., supported by a separate line or tool lanyard).
 
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From the Z133:

6.3.3 When an arborist or other worker is working in a tree other than from an aerial device, chain saws weighing more than 15 pounds (6.8 kg) service weight shall be made safe against falling (i.e., supported by a separate line or tool lanyard).

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Is this the minimum weight where a tool lanyard is required? Or

Is this to say that a line or tool lanyard must be separated from the climber when greater than 15 pounds.

Is it correct that break-away lanyards are designed for 15 pounds or less?
 
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Is this the minimum weight where a tool lanyard is required?

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I'm pretty sure that's true. Be aware that it says 'service weight'. If you're going to comply the saw, bar, fuel and oil all count, not just the weight of the power head.

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Is this to say that a line or tool lanyard must be separated from the climber when greater than 15 pounds.

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Yes, a line/lanyard could be attached to the tree/crane/bucket.

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Is it correct that break-away lanyards are designed for 15 pounds or less?

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Check the specs, I think it would be a lot less. Probably meant more for top handle saws. Take into account the shock load of dropping a saw and the load would generate more than the 200# that tears the stitching.
 
to me, that does not seem to indicate a NEED for a separate tie in for a saw weighing more than 15 lbs. it seems to leave room for the user to either have a separate tip for the saw or a lanyard to attach the saw to oneself while aloft.

yes, break aways are designed for 15lbs or less...here is a link to wes spur lots of info on this page

http://www.wesspur.com/Saddles/saddle-accessories.html

i can understand why a person would have a separate tip for their big saw while chunking out, but i have never done it so i dont know too much about it. it seems to me that it would be WAY more trouble than it is worth.
 
Re: >15 pound saws--independent tie-in for use in

If you have to lug the saw around while rigging for the hook, I can see the saw being in the way. About the point you need to cut, find a way to leave the saw there lanyard, webbing, whatever your choice. just make sure its tied in, falling saws aren't much fun to fix or catch (lame attempt at humor)

If the tree lends itself to this then problem solved. Another way, I'm sure I read it here, is to tie a single line to the last lead your going to cut,most likely, your TIP as well. Now think of your heavy, long bar chainsaw as setting up to footlock that single line, now, most likely you can get to that line from anywhere. Your saw can safely rest anywhere along that line as long as the prussick hitch of choice is set. With multi-lead removals i.e. beech, elm etc. its fairly helpful. Just a suggestion, hope it helps.
 
Re: >15 pound saws--independent tie-in for use in

The whole subject of a medium saw TIP is silly in my opinion. A 440 magnum with a 26 inch bar is more than capable of dealing with any aerial cutting done in any of these trees period. Just use a standard chainsaw lanyard when up top, and man up to the job!

It's a tempest in a tea cup issue for anyone except a rookie climber in my opinion.

jomoco
 
Re: >15 pound saws--independent tie-in for use in

How big a bar will a 440 run? I saw the options on the stihl website stopping at 36".

I was thinking of a 660 or 880 (of course not for the whole tree). I'd like to have a larger saw for stump cuts and lots of bucking. I figure that you can't beat horsepower for bucking lots of bigger wood. I'd like to mill with an alaskan mill, and again I figure there's no substitute for horsepower (of course with a sharp chain).

Anybody else use a 660 / comparable saw or larger aloft. Of do you just chase the cut around the tree.

Seems that a big saw moving fast through the wood would speed up the crane process, over me chasing around the tree trying to keep the cut as straight as possible. I know the crane would be able to break the holding wood. Maybe this would be good enough, but it does make me a little nervous to think about they ripping the holding wood that far away from the center pin on a large log that I'm under.



Rookie climbers have to start somewhere and build up. If I'm not seeing the forest for the trees, people can say so. I think that bombing wood from 100', when on top of the garage (its being pushed out of the way by the tree) and a sidewalk-width from the house seems sketchy.

I did chunk down a 44" DBH doug-fir that was 140-150 feet tall within 20' of a house between two powerlines last summer (one full year of climbing). I had a knuckleboom loader to pick it all up in large pieces, which would not work in this situation.



I'm trying to let machines keep me from wearing myself and crew out, work efficiently, and move on to more skilled work on other jobs.

I used an online calculator for volume of cone. I estimated and averaged a bit. I think 441 cu. feet per tree times 6 trees @even 50 pounds/ cu.foot is a heck of a lot= 132,000 pounds of trunk wood. Let's round that down to 100,000 pounds. Too much for me to want to move by hand.


In any case, the original point of the thread was me trying to cover the bases. I figured that there was a reason for what I though to be a 15 pound threshold, and was investigating this. I think suspenders will be a good idea. I guess that I won't really have to worry about the saw potentially being ripped out of my hand by falling wood in this scenario.
 
Re: >15 pound saws--independent tie-in for use in

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Anybody else use a 660 / comparable saw or larger aloft. Of do you just chase the cut around the tree.

I did chunk down a 44" DBH doug-fir that was 140-150 feet tall within 20' of a house between two powerlines last summer (one full year of climbing). I had a knuckleboom loader to pick it all up in large pieces, which would not work in this situation.


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I've used a 395xp/660 in the tree alot Sean, but only on wood over 48 inches dia, and it's a pita as well as a heckuva workout on the arms well worth avoiding if possible. As long as your saw is cutting straight, chasing the cut around the tree is the preferred method everytime in my opinion.

I'm not suggesting bombing the wood on the whole spar, just the fat wood under 20-30 feet. The spar wood above those heights can all be caught and lowered off a block with no problem by an experienced climber.

You make it seem as if these trees are giant monsters with no room to work them down in at all. But from the pics you posted of them that I've seen, they are just fair sized trees with an abundance of room in which to work them down in with no crane at all. Looked like 4 days max to me with a 4-5 man crew. Maybe less with a skidsteer to move the wood around with.

A 10K bid might be a real money maker on this job with the right crew and climber in my opinion.

Get Roger on it for good advice Sean. I'm sure he'd check it out for you for a couple bills, and it would be money well spent my friend.

Good luck with your job Sean.

jomoco
 
Re: >15 pound saws--independent tie-in for use in

the biggest I use in a tree is a 395 as well, but thats for the last 50' max of 36" + trees. anything less than 36" a 372 or a 460 is perfect for me. i generally dont use a bar longer than 4', but remember that the timber im into isnt necessarily as large.

i agree jomoco, it is something one needs to just suck it up on.

long hours chunking or pole rigging does suck balls tho :(, a crane is waaaaay more better
 
Re: >15 pound saws--independent tie-in for use in

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The whole subject of a medium saw TIP is silly in my opinion. A 440 magnum with a 26 inch bar is more than capable of dealing with any aerial cutting done in any of these trees period. Just use a standard chainsaw lanyard when up top, and man up to the job!

It's a tempest in a tea cup issue for anyone except a rookie climber in my opinion.

jomoco

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I find it quite interesting that you take this rather barbaric stance on this issue! especially after the safety concious, encyclopedia sized chipper thread. why is it up to the operator of a chainsaw to be trained, and well versed in its safe use, but not a man running a chipper? Your man up approach is rather alarming, after your previous stances on safety.

using a saw of this size in a tree doesn't require its own rope and TIP, I agree. how about some PPE? our dear brother/sisters to the east of us have PPE out the wazoo in the tree.

chainsaw cuts are FAR more of a common accident in our industry, and far more costly on a yearly basis than chipper accidents!

I agree that saws have come quite a longway safety wise.


or does safety really only matter when you have a self proclaimed hatred for the manufacturer, and receive a paycheck by fulfilling that hatred?
 
Re: >15 pound saws--independent tie-in for use in

I am not venting frustration. I am just wondering why the users of chainsaws are to man up, while users of chippers have to be held by the hand, and the chipper makers have to fear lawsuits and expert witnesses?

the improper use of chainsaws are responsible for far greater hospital visits and insurance premiums than chippers are.
 
Re: >15 pound saws--independent tie-in for use in

Has it occured to you to argue your points in the safety and liability thread rather than muddy up other members threads on unrelated subjects?

jomoco
 
Re: >15 pound saws--independent tie-in for use in

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Has it occured to you to argue your points in the safety and liability thread rather than muddy up other members threads on unrelated subjects?

jomoco

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im not slinging mud at all, just looking for clarification on our points in THIS thread. mud slinging and name calling is your bag, ill leave it up to you.

it doesn't matter what thread I post in, its not like you're going to 'man up' and clarify points or answer direct questions!!!!
 
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[ QUOTE ]

Is this the minimum weight where a tool lanyard is required?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure that's true. Be aware that it says 'service weight'. If you're going to comply the saw, bar, fuel and oil all count, not just the weight of the power head.

[ QUOTE ]
Is this to say that a line or tool lanyard must be separated from the climber when greater than 15 pounds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, a line/lanyard could be attached to the tree/crane/bucket.

[ QUOTE ]
Is it correct that break-away lanyards are designed for 15 pounds or less?

[/ QUOTE ]

Check the specs, I think it would be a lot less. Probably meant more for top handle saws. Take into account the shock load of dropping a saw and the load would generate more than the 200# that tears the stitching.

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http://www.buckinghammfg.com/instructionsandwarnings/25WARN050509.pdf

Right from the manufacturer's website.
 
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