“Safely” taking logs out of tree

Bart_

Active Member
Location
GTA
So, aside from vector loading the wood of the tree well, is there not any significant one liner, bullet points I missed? Vectors can turn into a mess of tradeoff discussion, so I'm just calling it a one liner which various people have their own level of understanding of.

Any big one liners that have been missed?

How about a lesser one, leaving some upper structure intact to mechanically damp the trunk as opposed to making a spring stick to work off of? I actually learned that one here on the Buzz.
 

Daniel

Well-Known Member
How about a lesser one, leaving some upper structure intact to mechanically damp the trunk as opposed to making a spring stick to work off of? I actually learned that one here on the Buzz.
Me too, but I've never seen it as a practical issue... Leaving lower limbs creates a lot more problems than it solves. That's ivory tower thinking that has very little or no practical application
 

Phil

Well-Known Member
Location
Oak Lawn, IL
So, aside from vector loading the wood of the tree well, is there not any significant one liner, bullet points I missed? Vectors can turn into a mess of tradeoff discussion, so I'm just calling it a one liner which various people have their own level of understanding of.

Any big one liners that have been missed?

How about a lesser one, leaving some upper structure intact to mechanically damp the trunk as opposed to making a spring stick to work off of? I actually learned that one here on the Buzz.

Leaving some structure to dampen the trunk is legitimate and can be effectively used. Like many of our techniques, there are trade offs that must be considered. If you are aware of, and weigh your options, correctly implementing them can increase safety by a noticeable margin. Some times this comes at the cost of adding a bit of additional time for setup, but that's just one of the trade offs.
 

Daniel

Well-Known Member
Maybe but I have never seen it in action. Have you ever personally seen it used or used it yourself?

I have rigged some big tops and wood over the years and believe there are many more effective and practical techniques to throw things to advantage.
 

Phil

Well-Known Member
Location
Oak Lawn, IL
Maybe but I have never seen it in action. Have you ever personally seen it used or used it yourself?

I have rigged some big tops and wood over the years and believe there are many more effective and practical techniques to throw things to advantage.
Yes and yes.


Relevant part at 1:30
 

Bart_

Active Member
Location
GTA
I miss Reg and his dry manner. But you can always see the gears are spinning away upstairs before the wisdom comes out. I think he either completely or finished the top by hand. Worth pointing out. Nice guy too.
 

Tony

Well-Known Member
Location
Lancaster, PA
So, aside from vector loading the wood of the tree well, is there not any significant one liner, bullet points I missed? Vectors can turn into a mess of tradeoff discussion, so I'm just calling it a one liner which various people have their own level of understanding of.

Any big one liners that have been missed?

How about a lesser one, leaving some upper structure intact to mechanically damp the trunk as opposed to making a spring stick to work off of? I actually learned that one here on the Buzz.
Most of the important stuff has been covered. Phil's point is valid, although when working out of a lift I don't care how much the tree sways unless I am compensating for a structural weakness lower. Having the stem swing back and slap the lift is embarrassing, so leaving structure opposite works well for that. It also spreads out the debris cleanup possibly making the ground crews job more tolerable/efficient.

The consistent one handing is BS. A snap cut or deeper face would accomplish more/better without the added risk. The sawyer needs to learn some principles, before applying methods he neither knows and/or understands.

The pieces that were lowered while small, should have been let run. From the lift operator's perspective, they should seem like they are in free fall. On a narrow crowned tree like that I would expect my rope person to let the tips "smash" a bit into the ground. The damage would be limited to a small area close to the stump, which we would be grinding anyway. This dissipates a lot of force and is always a good technique if you can accept the turf damage in close. I admit I am not privy to the specifics of the client's concerns or the estimate, so that is always a consideration.

What I do know is that anytime you can dissipate force in a rigging system, you should. This crew seems not to be of the same mind.

Tony
 

Reach

Well-Known Member
Location
Atglen, PA
Most of the important stuff has been covered. Phil's point is valid, although when working out of a lift I don't care how much the tree sways unless I am compensating for a structural weakness lower. Having the stem swing back and slap the lift is embarrassing, so leaving structure opposite works well for that. It also spreads out the debris cleanup possibly making the ground crews job more tolerable/efficient.

The consistent one handing is BS. A snap cut or deeper face would accomplish more/better without the added risk. The sawyer needs to learn some principles, before applying methods he neither knows and/or understands.

The pieces that were lowered while small, should have been let run. From the lift operator's perspective, they should seem like they are in free fall. On a narrow crowned tree like that I would expect my rope person to let the tips "smash" a bit into the ground. The damage would be limited to a small area close to the stump, which we would be grinding anyway. This dissipates a lot of force and is always a good technique if you can accept the turf damage in close. I admit I am not privy to the specifics of the client's concerns or the estimate, so that is always a consideration.

What I do know is that anytime you can dissipate force in a rigging system, you should. This crew seems not to be of the same mind.

Tony
Tony,

I agree with all of that, especially with the job of a ground person running ropes being the job of dissipating forces to the point where the climber can barely feel the piece catch, if at all. I recently ran lines for a climber I employ, and he said he never knew his previous ground hand was so bad. Apparently he’s been getting shook up in the trees a lot more than I was aware. That led to some lessons here on proper rope work, and and has led to a few improvements.

On a different note, thanks to your TCIA article, I now know which company is yours. I know one of your climbers, a nice and knowledgeable young man he is. We do compete with you at times, as we are in the same markets, but we have been referring all of our Lancaster county customers to you for their treatment needs, as we are not currently offering any chemical apps.
 

Bart_

Active Member
Location
GTA
From the tapered hinge thread, I just read Daniel's TCIA article and suggest extracting this nugget:

Use a tapered hinge (actually just a beneficial enhancement) to lay a branch removal into the rigging with a side motion included trajectory to soften the weight take up by the rigging. Incidental benefit also annotated in a Reg video is placing the limb's detachment from the tree in a different/better spot for obstacle clearing, in Reg's case taking backside conifer limbs around to the side before hitting the speed line.
 

dsptech

Well-Known Member
Location
North East
I too am usually rather introverted and antisocial - other than when I am working, or on here. And clearly we are quite close if you live further East, so I am sure we have crossed paths somewhere. I shall have to try to figure out who you are now, whether or not I succeed is no matter, puzzling away at that for a while will be a fun challenge.
You are both probably related. :ROFLMAO:
 

Chaplain242

Well-Known Member
From the tapered hinge thread, I just read Daniel's TCIA article and suggest extracting this nugget:

Use a tapered hinge (actually just a beneficial enhancement) to lay a branch removal into the rigging with a side motion included trajectory to soften the weight take up by the rigging. Incidental benefit also annotated in a Reg video is placing the limb's detachment from the tree in a different/better spot for obstacle clearing, in Reg's case taking backside conifer limbs around to the side before hitting the speed line.
The other component not needed in Reg video scenario is to use an additional brake line, especially dropping the top, it can near free fall initially to limit side load, but slows the fall speed of the top to limit the force when the top weighs up the midline of the zipline when the zipline is more horizontal, just in case the caught momentum is enough to snap the spar...
 

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