Undercutting hung up trees

[TheTreeSpyder]

Always want the line angle pulling away from climber at tearoff.
Mite go thru a phase that pulls back towards climber some, but at tearoff need it pulling away.
.
Length resistance/obstruction is at a higher leveraged position against than Dutchman, tho not as rigid. CoG is usually 'inside' between obstruction and hinge pivot, Dutchman CoG is outside.

 

[Serf Life]

Yea. I am always amazed when I watch guys put a top into a location that it won’t fit in. Do they not understand that the end result can many times be a top sitting in your lap?

Man I got so freaking lucky 3-4yrs ago making that mistake. Actively lifting 70-80’ spruce in dense patch, on an island and working in the breeze, needed to feel something etc. Put a top perfectly in a slot, but spruce limbs on spruce limbs is like velcro and she didn’t drive through (should have stopped/re-assessed and climbed higher), thin hinge held and it was a Humboldt thankfully. Sliced it off and all ok, but still no bueño.

 

[rico]

Hardly relevant... you just couldn't help yourself cause someone needs to call this guy out...

I volunteer..

57K subscribers to watch him fumble and fk around... mistake after mistake... he's clueless.. And just like the rest of us, he probably thinks he's good.. or even great..

Relevance? It was the perfect scenario for a slice cut, and he actually talks about using a slice cut on this top at the 14:20 mark. I'm not sure why he didn't use one here, or simple climb higher and take a smaller top that would have fit in his chosen spot. Shit sawmanship and poor judgement gonna wreck this young man if he doesn't wise up soon.

Another young fella chasing YouTube Arb Stardom way before he is ready. They all see August and think that if they buy enough shiny new gear they can do it too. The part they are missing is that August had years of experience before he ever made a fucking vid..

 

[rico]

Man I got so freaking lucky 3-4yrs ago making that mistake. Actively lifting 70-80’ spruce in dense patch, on an island and working in the breeze, needed to feel something etc. Put a top perfectly in a slot, but spruce limbs on spruce limbs is like velcro and she didn’t drive through (should have stopped/re-assessed and climbed higher), thin hinge held and it was a Humboldt thankfully. Sliced it off and all ok, but still no bueño.

My 3rd or 4th season in Alaska I watched a man miss his lay with a 80-90 ft top as he was prepping the tree for a spar pole. The top hung up in a nearby tree at about 45 degrees, the butt sat on the stump for a few seconds, and then rolled on the climber. A nightmare scenario that painted a very ugly picture and learning moment that I have never forgotten.

 

[MikoDel]

This leaner is a bit bigger than it looks in the pic.

The illiustration w/the green line REDIRECTED is what I SHOULD HAVE done. But I ran it straight down to my pulley system. Far away, which I thought would soften the angle enuff - but no. Eventually I realized the angle was too oblique, and I was pulling downward on the stem, more than anything else. I was not able to free it that way. Ended up loosening the tension, but keeping the line on for control.

I thought a notch on the topside and a hinge cut from underneath would let the leaning weight simply collapse and fold, but while working that cut (about a foot or so off the ground - normal felling height) I could feel the weight was just pressing IN, and it wasn't going anywhere.

So I gave up on that. and, a few feet higher, I progressively cut two notches, top and bottom, to get a feel for which way it wanted to 'fold'. I made very wide open cuts to prevent pinching, shaving it down. (Thx for the illustrations for the special cuts for leaners. Appreciate it!!)

Still, there was so much weight on the stem I was worried the saw would pinch when I cut thru, so I finished w/a Fiskars 36" splitting maul. I also tied off the bottom part of the stem (under my notches) w/a safety line to a nearby tree. I couldn't be sure if the weight was going to kick the stump towards me when it let go. The bottom was really rotted out and it could have gone in any direction. With an axe you gotta get pretty darn close! I didn't want to be inna cast for 6 weeks just to make a few hundred bucks.

 

[Matias]

My 3rd or 4th season in Alaska I watched a man miss his lay with a 80-90 ft top as he was prepping the tree for a spar pole. The top hung up in a nearby tree at about 45 degrees, the butt sat on the stump for a few seconds, and then rolled on the climber. A nightmare scenario that painted a very ugly picture and learning moment that I have never forgotten.

80'-90' top in Alaska sounds heavy as fuck. Sounds really ugly.

 

[Daniel]

Shit sawmanship and poor judgement gonna wreck this young man if he doesn't wise up soon.

yep... I said the same thing to myself about Human, Corey... before that walnut limb came 6" from killing him and before the fall that cracked his pelvis. IN that case it was as much about attitude.. every time he screwed up, he blew it off, like it was no big deal....

There's a lot of things that dude could have done differently, any one of which may have kept that thing from landing in his lap... I'm usually in the go big or go home camp, rather than the smaller is safer, but only if you know what you're doing.

those long heavy lateral limbs on the low end of those tops will throw the balance off what you might expect...

I suck at Humboldts, but use them religiously ANY AND EVERY TIME a top could possibly contact another tree as it falls...
so that's a given.. the shallow angle of his bottom cut on that humboldt is a complete rookie mistake.... I use the steep angled humboldts with great sucess.... I was calling it the "stangle", but have taken Mick's suggestion to call it the "trap door"

this was justa couple weeks back

this was 13 years ago.. I would have cut them steeper here:

 

[rico]

This leaner is a bit bigger than it looks in the pic.

The illiustration w/the green line REDIRECTED is what I SHOULD HAVE done. But I ran it straight down to my pulley system. Far away, which I thought would soften the angle enuff - but no. Eventually I realized the angle was too oblique, and I was pulling downward on the stem, more than anything else. I was not able to free it that way. Ended up loosening the tension, but keeping the line on for control.

I thought a notch on the topside and a hinge cut from underneath would let the leaning weight simply collapse and fold, but while working that cut (about a foot or so off the ground - normal felling height) I could feel the weight was just pressing IN, and it wasn't going anywhere.

So I gave up on that. and, a few feet higher, I progressively cut two notches, top and bottom, to get a feel for which way it wanted to 'fold'. I made very wide open cuts to prevent pinching, shaving it down. (Thx for the illustrations for the special cuts for leaners. Appreciate it!!)

Still, there was so much weight on the stem I was worried the saw would pinch when I cut thru, so I finished w/a Fiskars 36" splitting maul. I also tied off the bottom part of the stem (under my notches) w/a safety line to a nearby tree. I couldn't be sure if the weight was going to kick the stump towards me when it let go. The bottom was really rotted out and it could have gone in any direction. With an axe you gotta get pretty darn close! I didn't want to be inna cast for 6 weeks just to make a few hundred bucks.

The downward force that a hung up tree can exert can be massive. A well executed slice/salami cut uses those forces to its advantage and is why it can be so effective at clearing hung up trees.

 

[Bendroctanus]

I like using used diesel oil. It's free and its eco friendly?

 

[mofish75]

I’ve had to under cut one 5 times before it was able to fall.once I heard it start cracking, I stepped back and watched as it broke loose.only to fall straight down& the top not move but fraction of what i needed it to.

 

[Neill]

The closest call I’ve ever had came from trying to walk down a hung sourwood tree. It was like a shepherds hook and I lodged it into a big maple .
On the fourth or fifth attempt it was nearly vertical and I was working in bad terrain with lots of slash around. I made the last cut and the butt of the sourwood left the ground and began to swing away, I thought for sure the top was going to slide out and come right at me. I froze waiting for the moment when the tree had committed to one direction so I could attempt to dive clear, but to my astonishment it held! It rocked back and forth for a few minutes and I stumbled away
A windstorm knocked it down not long after

 

[Bendroctanus]

The closest call I’ve ever had came from trying to walk down a hung sourwood tree. It was like a shepherds hook and I lodged it into a big maple .
On the fourth or fifth attempt it was nearly vertical and I was working in bad terrain with lots of slash around. I made the last cut and the butt of the sourwood left the ground and began to swing away, I thought for sure the top was going to slide out and come right at me. I froze waiting for the moment when the tree had committed to one direction so I could attempt to dive clear, but to my astonishment it held! It rocked back and forth for a few minutes and I stumbled away
A windstorm knocked it down not long after

Mmmm. I bet your butt puckered enough to keep you from poopin’ fir a week. I know the feeling. Just reading that tensed me up a bit.

 

[tomstrees]

You left a hung up tree? Yikes

The guy insisted that it be left after we cut it; not a contract job, I offered to check it out and see what I could do. I told no charge but he gave me some money. He didn't want my advice on how to get it down.

 

[tomstrees]

 

[Matias]

The guy insisted that it be left after we cut it; not a contract job, I offered to check it out and see what I could do. I told no charge but he gave me some money. He didn't want my advice on how to get it down.

I have dealt with one or two of those. No sense arguing with that.

 

[Serf Life]

I have dealt with one or two of those. No sense arguing with that.

I get that (and have probably done the same at some point), but disagree. Argue to get it down as you’ve already started and would be leaving it unsafe, if they push back at least get it in writing. People’s memory changes and if something catastrophic occurs it could get bad in many ways.

 

[Matias]

I get that (and have probably done the same at some point), but disagree. Argue to get it down as you’ve already started and would be leaving it unsafe, if they push back at least get it in writing. People’s memory changes and if something catastrophic occurs it could get bad in many ways.

1000%, if you are there in any formal capacity, that is the protocol; get everything in writing. I will always make the case, but if someone is deadset on not listening to good advice, it's just what it is. I haven't gotten into that level of sketchy situation, but I have definitely had this kind of conversation, and I just don't have the time to argue with peopke who don't want to know.

 

[tomstrees]

1000%, if you are there in any formal capacity, that is the protocol; get everything in writing. I will always make the case, but if someone is deadset on not listening to good advice, it's just what it is. I haven't gotten into that level of sketchy situation, but I have definitely had this kind of conversation, and I just don't have the time to argue with peopke who don't want to know.

I can see how someone cutting a tree could be liable for all kinds of nasty liabilities connected with it coming down badly. In this case it was way in the back in the thick of some other trees, so the chance of it coming down on someone was remote. The property owner likes to do everything on his property, so it was sort of a fluke that he'd want me to do something like this.

I had a log splitting job where the lady customer in the middle of my doing the splitting mentioned a spruce near the driveway, 6-8 inches diameter that was dead that I said I would take care of. It got hung up on the saw, I did not have a rope and could not flop it over; I went out to get a rope at a store but got caught in school traffic and circled back. I finished the log splitting exhausted. I intended to come back to take care of the tree but got a message that it came down overnight damaging the property. I could have gotten in a lot of trouble had the customer wanted to do so.

 

[evo]

I get that (and have probably done the same at some point), but disagree. Argue to get it down as you’ve already started and would be leaving it unsafe, if they push back at least get it in writing. People’s memory changes and if something catastrophic occurs it could get bad in many ways.

I agree, you touch it you own it

 

[rico]

Another vid by this young man. Go to the 22:30 mark and watch him pile drive his life support system into a hard packed asphalt driveway. Mercy! I tried to have a conversation with him about the error of his ways and appearantly this budding YouTube ArbStar has no idea how to setup a retrieval leg or the slightest notion of what a canopy anchor is. Its 2024 for gawd sakes. How it that even possible?