Cinching spar anchor

[Tree-Taylor]

Alpine butterfly with a quickie or a prussic with a quickie, is there any benefit to one over the other?

Seems to me the alpine butterfly is an overall better solution.

Prussic with a quickie. I see a lot of advantages in having an adjustable anchor. Whatever works for you....

 

[Jehinten]

Not to take away from the original post, but I saw this screenshot on FB the other day and think it has some good potential.

Currently I do an alpine with a quickie for most canopy anchors. If I'm firewooding down I tend to just use a running bowline or a bowline with a quickie.

 

[DSMc]

Prussic with a quickie. I see a lot of advantages in having an adjustable anchor. Whatever works for you....

Admittedly, I almost never use a canopy anchor unless it's
working down a spar. I will sometimes use a cinching redirect in order to maintain beneficial loading. I guess my old brain is just not understanding the advantages of having an adjustable choking anchor on a SRS climbing line. In what circumstance would you use something like that?

 

[Christrees]

Not to take away from the original post, but I saw this screenshot on FB the other day and think it has some good potential.

Currently I do an alpine with a quickie for most canopy anchors. If I'm firewooding down I tend to just use a running bowline or a bowline with a quickie.

Yeah it does...ive done it with a carabiner attached back to my hitch climber pulley. Works well

 

[Christrees]

Admittedly, I almost never use a canopy anchor unless it's
working down a spar. I will sometimes use a cinching redirect in order to maintain beneficial loading. I guess my old brain is just not understanding the advantages of having an adjustable choking anchor on a SRS climbing line. In what circumstance would you use something like that?

In the same circumstance of using an apline butterfly..i cant really think of many advantages because i haven't tried it. But seems like it would be faster and eaiser than untying and retying your apline butterfly to move to a different lead or something. Idk im really new to srt and have alot to learn. Always looking for new tips and tricks. Idk i just like it.

 

[Tree-Taylor]

Admittedly, I almost never use a canopy anchor unless it's
working down a spar. I will sometimes use a cinching redirect in order to maintain beneficial loading. I guess my old brain is just not understanding the advantages of having an adjustable choking anchor on a SRS climbing line. In what circumstance would you use something like that?

Like I said I never got around to playing with that setup but I like the idea of being able to adjust the length of tail. For removals I like to work the tree with a short tail but a long tail for spar work. It would also double as a ddrt system in a pinch, leaving the other end for srt all on one line.

 

[Stumpsprouts]

Cool setup.

What I’ve seen and adopted is a cinching, adjustable, indepedent canopy TIP that has two rings- a large petzl ring on the end of a spliced 20’ rope, and an adjustable prusik smaller ring. Your climb line goes through both rings like a cambium saver.

I use a quickie and an alpine butterfly 90% of the time unless it’s a spar that will require more than a couple rigs. This separate system has benefits over the quickie/butterfly in that it is-

Removing wear and tear on your climbing rope. Also no pitch on your rope and climbing system.

infinitely and quickly adjustable.

retrievable. Best way is a micro biner sharing the eye of your climb line with your life load biner. Never have to take the lil biner on or off.

Removing the need to estimate the length of tail you will need for the final fell. You just DRT to the ground.

This is something I saw others doing. It was @Worthaug or @caleb both.

I dont have a photo sorry

 

[Christrees]

Cool setup.

What I’ve seen and adopted is a cinching, adjustable, indepedent canopy TIP that has two rings- a large petzl ring on the end of a spliced 20’ rope, and an adjustable prusik smaller ring. Your climb line goes through both rings like a cambium saver.

I use a quickie and an alpine butterfly 90% of the time unless it’s a spar that will require more than a couple rigs. This separate system has benefits over the quickie/butterfly in that it is-

Removing wear and tear on your climbing rope. Also no pitch on your rope and climbing system.

infinitely and quickly adjustable.

retrievable. Best way is a micro biner sharing the eye of your climb line with your life load biner. Never have to take the lil biner on or off.

Removing the need to estimate the length of tail you will need for the final fell. You just DRT to the ground.

This is something I saw others doing. It was @Worthaug or @caleb both.

I dont have a photo sorry

Yeah i think i seen that too in another thread..thats another good idea. Its a nice little adaptation of what were talking about now. I forgot about it. I want to try that too. Thanks for the reminder

 

[Christrees]

Cool setup.

What I’ve seen and adopted is a cinching, adjustable, indepedent canopy TIP that has two rings- a large petzl ring on the end of a spliced 20’ rope, and an adjustable prusik smaller ring. Your climb line goes through both rings like a cambium saver.

I use a quickie and an alpine butterfly 90% of the time unless it’s a spar that will require more than a couple rigs. This separate system has benefits over the quickie/butterfly in that it is-

Removing wear and tear on your climbing rope. Also no pitch on your rope and climbing system.

infinitely and quickly adjustable.

retrievable. Best way is a micro biner sharing the eye of your climb line with your life load biner. Never have to take the lil biner on or off.

Removing the need to estimate the length of tail you will need for the final fell. You just DRT to the ground.

This is something I saw others doing. It was @Worthaug or @caleb both.

I dont have a photo sorry

Oh and yeah i found that out too when i was getting tired of the retrieval ball. I have a micro dmm xsre works great. Alot easier then messing around with the retrieval ball. Just acknowledging that so others can try it. Hope they know.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

it has some good potential.

I like it. Substitute a pulley biner into the bight to reduce some friction.

This ISC pulley could work too. As long as the folded bight passes.

RP031 Double Re-direct Pulley for Industrial Height Safety

RP031 Double Re-direct Pulley for Industrial Height Safety

www.iscwales.com

 

[Christrees]

I like it. Substitute a pulley biner into the bight to reduce some friction.

This ISC pulley could work too. As long as the folded bight passes.

RP031 Double Re-direct Pulley for Industrial Height Safety

RP031 Double Re-direct Pulley for Industrial Height Safety

www.iscwales.com

Yeah the pulley biners a good idea. Like i said ive done it with a regular carabiner and it worked great. With a petzls pulley carabiner that would be awsome. But never thought to use 1 of my quickies i like that to. But id reather use a carabiner with a pulley for efficiency. Nice

 

[Jehinten]

I like it. Substitute a pulley biner into the bight to reduce some friction.

This ISC pulley could work too. As long as the folded bight passes.

RP031 Double Re-direct Pulley for Industrial Height Safety

RP031 Double Re-direct Pulley for Industrial Height Safety

www.iscwales.com

The only issue there is side loading a carabiner and the pulley, I assume we'll treat pulleys the same as carabiners when it comes to side loading.

That said, the zigzag releases so effortlessly that I suspect a small amount of friction on that pin won't hinder it. A hitch, not setup as smooth, may not be able to get away with the friction. That's all speculation however, I'll have to test it out before I can say for sure.

 

[Christrees]

The only issue there is side loading a carabiner and the pulley, I assume we'll treat pulleys the same as carabiners when it comes to side loading.

That said, the zigzag releases so effortlessly that I suspect a small amount of friction on that pin won't hinder it. A hitch, not setup as smooth, may not be able to get away with the friction. That's all speculation however, I'll have to test it out before I can say for sure.

Ive done it with a hitch and hitch climber. You throw the carabiner around the spar. Take a bite of rope pass it threw the carabiner take another carabiner attach to the bite of rope and back to the middle of the hitch climber. After you get that setup you can choke the spar and tighten everything up. Works great. Afterwards unattache the middle carabiner on your hitch climber. Pull your slack out. Which is doubled, but everything falls right down to you to. Nice. repeat.

 

[Christrees]

The only issue there is side loading a carabiner and the pulley, I assume we'll treat pulleys the same as carabiners when it comes to side loading.

That said, the zigzag releases so effortlessly that I suspect a small amount of friction on that pin won't hinder it. A hitch, not setup as smooth, may not be able to get away with the friction. That's all speculation however, I'll have to test it out before I can say for sure.

But i do kinda worrie about side loading the carabiner your right to have have concern. But i have the gate facing upwards and i fell the pressures coming down on the spine. Wonder if the quickie would be better? Let me know what you think. Cuz i really like using this method. Ive never had any problems. Prob dont make much difference but i use a steel petzl oxan just for comfort. The other carabiner you grab the bite with and attach to the hitch climber loads correctly so no worries there.

 

[ghostice]

This is still a relevant video about cinched TIPs:

See comments at about 3:15 regarding using manufacturers and pulleys in a cinched setup (although a lot of people do).

I really like the original slant on things in the beginning of this thread, esp. for coming down a spindly spar - it seems to me it is really one of the most compact options usable choked on those 4" noodles - alpine butterfly and biner/pulley and even the knot and ring option in the video gives you a larger/longer connection that this steel thimble prussik doesn't. On a larger hunk of wood no problem, lots of options. And the method can move the wear section on the climbing rope around, so you're not just putting wear on one rope length with the choke around the tree (and the prussik isn't really moving so it's not wearing by being tied only one way either).
From the "Department of Overkill" (???) though, I would back up any life support prussik on a line with an alpine butterfly below and stick a biner on the butterfly and hook it to the rope above the butterfly - most alpine guides I know would do this as life support backup (and I'm sure Mark Bridge et al would agree).
Cool thread.
Cheers

 

[Chaplain242]

Not to take away from the original post, but I saw this screenshot on FB the other day and think it has some good potential.

Currently I do an alpine with a quickie for most canopy anchors. If I'm firewooding down I tend to just use a running bowline or a bowline with a quickie.

Is this not a risk to burn your climbline with rope on rope contact? Would be okay I guess but maybe not bomb on it?

 

[Jehinten]

Is this not a risk to burn your climbline with rope on rope contact? Would be okay I guess but maybe not bomb on it?

I don't think I'd bomb out with this setup, but thanks for pointing it out. This seems like a good setup for fairly short descents when you need to move your tie in point as you work your way down. Once finished aloft it'd be easy to do a simple choked anchor (SRS) and use the tail of the rope for retrieval.

 

[Christrees]

I don't think I'd bomb out with this setup, but thanks for pointing it out. This seems like a good setup for fairly short descents when you need to move your tie in point as you work your way down. Once finished aloft it'd be easy to do a simple choked anchor (SRS) and use the tail of the rope for retrieval.

Yeah your right..ive never bombed using it either. Also only used it on spars. Where the quick setup is an advantage.

 

[Christrees]

This is still a relevant video about cinched TIPs:

See comments at about 3:15 regarding using manufacturers and pulleys in a cinched setup (although a lt of people do).

I really like the original slant on things in the beginning of this thread, esp. for coming down a spindly spar - it seems to me it is really one of the most compact options usable choked on those 4" noodles - alpine butterfly and biner/pulley and even the knot and ring option in the video gives you a larger/longer connection that this steel thimble prussik doesn't. On a larger hunk of wood no problem, lots of options. And the method can move the wear section on the climbing rope around, so you're not just putting wear on one rope length with the choke around the tree (and the prussik isn't really moving so it's not wearing by being tied only one way either).
From the "Department of Overkill" (???) though, I would back up any life support prussik on a line with an alpine butterfly below and stick a biner on the butterfly and hook it to the rope above the butterfly - most alpine guides I know would do this as life support backup (and I'm sure Mark Bridge et al would agree).
Cool thread.
Cheers

Yeah ive used this anchor too. And watched this video a few times. Great video when trying to learn srt anchors. I really new to srt and have alot to learn. And from what your saying about the original context of the post. Backing up with an alpine butterfly and biner is a great idea. Honestly i wouldnt because it defeats the purpose of it. Being quick and easy. Not saying it not a great idea. It is. I think alot of other will like it. Its just i would just use the alpine butterfly cinch by itself. To be faster.

 

[Lemonjello]

We are talking about a climbing line here and not just a lanyard?
If so, it seems like you are going to be sliding that prussic an awful lot each time you need to move things.

I’m in Hawaii and do quite a bit of coco palms (basically a near-ish vertical spar) On removals I defrond the crown, open up the cinching loop and lasso it over and cinch. It’s pretty quick and I have a few sharpie marks on my line at around 10’, cinch the prussic, rig or flop and chunk depends on drop zone.

I looked and searched to see if someone had done something like this before but couldn’t find anything, it works great for what I do, I used to do the alpine and an ANSI gate carabiner (Specifically the the DMM Boa, It’s 30kn, heck it’s 9kn with the gate open! it has a slight reverse curve in the spine that orients it with the gate out)
Thanks for all the feedback and comments fellas!