pat lacey

Daniel

Carpal tunnel level member
I really admire his cutting skills and getting a chance to peek into his world.
He uses a swing dutchman on this particular cut, which means he intentionally cut the far corner of the hinge thru completely. Wonder what you think of the technique when Pat uses it Rico?????
 
What was the point of the "swing Dutchman"? Didn't look like it swung at all. Fell almost perfectly straight. (I realize there's only so much you can do with a notch to guide a tree like that, just curious)
 
Not a swing-dutchman, I don't believe. A swing dutchman is typically overcutting the horizontal, to get that side to break earlier.


He cut off the hinge on the far side, no dutchmen, as in bypass cut.

The dutchman term is loose. Swing dutchman, maybe not so loose.

Could be a local nomenclature thing.

In the comments the cutter calls it a sizwheel.


Used a sizwheel/ whizzy and a triple hinge, from the looks of it. Probably leaning to the right, and he needed to keep it to the left, as I read it.


Impressive work. Accuracy with a 42" or bigger bar, leaving over a big drop-off. Good time for "cork" boots. Looks like he's good some good videos.

Thanks for posting that one.



Nice maneuver at 4:00, making that little bore-cut to be able to catch the bar and shove the face-cut out. I wondered if he wasn't about to put the saw down, and pop the face-cut out with an ax-blow or use a wedge or two.

Shows skills, how he keeps his tool in hand in use, and not switch to a more basic, and maybe labor-intensive approach. Don't catch the bar tip in there!
 
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First let me say the Patrick is a true gun slinger and a legit pro..

Am I missing something here? I was taught that a swinging dutchman is the use of intentional bypass on one side of your undercut.. When the bypassed kerf closes up it cause the hinge on that side to break early, and theoretically causes your tree to swing. Theoretically? As far as I can tell Patrick did not execute a swinging dutchmen, but he did cut some of his far side hinge... Patrick is a serious pro so I will not question his reason for doing what he did. The tree saved out so its a win in my book.

On a side note happy new year to you Daniel... ...
 
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I’m not familiar with that cut either. I wonder if he would have done so with a home on the side of the lean? It’s good to note while the stakes are high in logging, the two largest risks are getting hurt, or breaking the log. Of course there are other risk, of injuring others but we should leave that out as no one SHOULD be around.
Looks like a nice spruce...
 
Around here we call that a swing cut. As opposed to a Dutchman where you cut a corner off. The sizwheel was the little notch under the face, which I call a draw notch.
 
Over on the ope forum they’re saying this guy got hurt. Asking that people subscribe to his channel to help him out.
 
That’s really interesting. Totally outside my wheel house. Bucket list has timber felling school on it. I’ve felled a lot of trees in 20+ years but they rarely needed more than a wedge or a pull line. Mad respect to your kind @rico totally different world than mine.
 
Idk... I'm wondering if cutting the compression wood let's the tree hang in there sizwheel longer, and pull around more to the tension side.

I've only sizwheel-ed for hard side leaners and dead trees, going to the lay, perpendicular be the the hinge.

I'm likely to use a full-gap/ block-out with a snipe on dead trees.


Comments on sizwheel versus full-gap???
 
That’s really interesting. Totally outside my wheel house. Bucket list has timber felling school on it. I’ve felled a lot of trees in 20+ years but they rarely needed more than a wedge or a pull line. Mad respect to your kind @rico totally different world than mine.
Thanks Steve but what I do is super simply stuff and you would excel around here very quickly. Don't tell anyone but Redwoods are the sweetest and easiest trees to work with ever.
 
Southsound, you pegged it with the triple hinge and sizwell, and crazy cool trick boring a little kerf to use the saw as a pry bar to lever the face out.
 
First let me say the Patrick is a true gun slinger and a legit pro..

Am I missing something here? I was taught that a swinging dutchman is the use of intentional bypass on one side of your undercut.. When the bypassed kerf closes up it cause the hinge on that side to break early, and theoretically causes your tree to swing. Theoretically? As far as I can tell Patrick did not execute a swinging dutchmen, but he did cut some of his far side hinge... Patrick is a serious pro so I will not question his reason for doing what he did. The tree saved out so its a win in my book.

On a side note happy new year to you Daniel... ...

I had the good fortune to meet and work with pat two winters ago in West Virginia on a row clearing project for natural gas pipeline. About a hundred hired guys mostly from the west coast. I was one of the few guys from northeast. Guy's a literal animal. In and out of the woods. I have arm wrestled him. Learned a lot of tricks from that group of guys. Lots of respect for pat.

On a sad note he just recently had a pretty bad accident. Thankfully he made it out and is making a good recovery. Love ya Pat!
 
First let me say the Patrick is a true gun slinger and a legit pro..

Am I missing something here? I was taught that a swinging dutchman is the use of intentional bypass on one side of your undercut.. When the bypassed kerf closes up it cause the hinge on that side to break early, and theoretically causes your tree to swing. Theoretically? As far as I can tell Patrick did not execute a swinging dutchmen, but he did cut some of his far side hinge... Patrick is a serious pro so I will not question his reason for doing what he did. The tree saved out so its a win in my book.

On a side note happy new year to you Daniel... ...
Thank you. You too. We've got a big year coming with lots of ash trees dying and who knows what's going to happen to the trees from spotted lanternfly.

I've never used a sizwheel and understand the concept that longer hinge fibers on the front of the hinge (beyond the height of the apex where two kerfs meet) have more flex and therefore the ability to spread the force out more evenly over the full width of the hinge (front to back), rather than having a "static hinge" which has the tendency to isolate the most force on the fibers at the back of the hinge, which then just get transferred forward (but still isolated) as the back fibers tear.

It looks like Pat used the sizwheel to help keep the left side of the hinge stronger than the right. This will keep the tree from going right. then he completely blew out the far (right) side of the hinge for either the same reason or because his bar was short and he couldn't reach the far side of the tree well for the steep hill. Or some combination of both. Either way, he believed he didn't need the hinge fibers on the far right corner of the hinge. Pat has the skill to have kept those fibers intact if they were needed.

That complete removal of fibers on one side of the hinge is called a swing Dutchman in Dent's book, "Professional Timber Falling". As we've been through before, sometime after the publication of this book, Dent came to believe that the many forms of the swing Dutchman (this is just one of the possible options that involve removal of the side of the hinge) was too unreliable to teach. I would argue once again that the technique still has value or Dent would not have suggested using it in the first place. And just because it is too unreliable to teach does not mean that an exploration of the many factors that influence its ability to hold against side weight won't yield some understanding of the potential and limitations of the cut.

One thing we can agree on is that if the tree starts to settle on the kerf cut, that would induce even more side lean which would be counterproductive. I've seen trees settle and begin to lean more just from cutting a notch, so the size, weight, lean, species, condition, and other factors are going to make a difference in what it takes to avoid side settling.

I wonder what pat would think of all your criticisms of the technique when I showed it. You got ugly and mighty righteous. Now you're like hey, if Pat does it, it's cool. That was predictable...
 
And BTW, Pat did get clobbered by a widow maker, which seems to have fallen behind the tree he was cutting in a pretty freaky accident. He was in good enough shape to take the hit, though I think he did break a vertebra. He's making the best of it and looks like he'll be back soon.

 

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