Employing lanyard SRT-style: descending?

[SomethingWitty]

Why all the hate/non-love for the double ended lanyard? Too much hardware?

Also, thought this in my sleep: what about a 3:1? As in, throw lanyard up, cinch, set an ascender or prusik with pulley, run tail of lanyard through, and climb on up. Gets rid of friction, but without a friction saver, as such.

The double ended lanyard is a crutch that is usually very unnecessary, just like a 30' lanyard or a pole saw.
When I started just climbing instead of always trying to outsmart the tree, it started getting easier.

And yes, the DEDA lanyards are clunky because of all the hardware and the potential for long, dangling loops.

 

[LordFarkwad]

The double ended lanyard is a crutch that is usually very unnecessary, just like a 30' lanyard or a pole saw.
When I started just climbing instead of always trying to outsmart the tree, it started getting easier.

And yes, the DEDA lanyards are clunky because of all the hardware and the potential for long, dangling loops.

Gotcha. Yeah today was really the first time I've ever used a long lanyard in the tree, and rope management became much more of a thing, versus the 18' double ended.

 

[SomethingWitty]

I recently dropped a few feet on my main lanyard so I am down to around 7-8 feet. It stays where I need it to now.
I don't like stopping constantly to move my lanyard out of the way, and it is definitely constantly when you're carrying that much rope.

Most climbers go through a long lanyard phase. I know I did.

 

[LordFarkwad]

I recently dropped a few feet on my main lanyard so I am down to around 7-8 feet. It stays where I need it to now.
I don't like stopping constantly to move my lanyard out of the way, and it is definitely constantly when you're carrying that much rope.

Most climbers go through a long lanyard phase. I know I did.

I'm guessing by your first post in this thread that to accomplish what I'm talking about, you would just use MRS with some kind of friction-reducing sleeve or device to advance?

 

[moss]

Why all the hate/non-love for the double ended lanyard? Too much hardware?

No hate just my preference. I don't like loops of rope hanging below me, especially on conifers, a loop grabs on everything, stubs etc. Alternating between a single ended lanyard and my main rope (for advancing) leaves two clean lines hanging below, much less chance to hang up on anything.
-AJ

 

[DSMc]

... Most climbers go through a long lanyard phase. I know I did.

Hmm, guess I'm just a slow learner then because I still use a long lanyard and find it most useful and no more cumbersome than a short one.

OP, if you are just advancing your position in those pines you really do not need a friction saver at each point of advancement whether using SRS or MRS.

 

[LordFarkwad]

OP, if you are just advancing your position in those pines you really do not need a friction saver at each point of advancement whether using SRS or MRS.

No way! I could more easily just ladder up these particular trees to advance my PSP. I guess the point of this was experimentation, as much as anything, for when I encounter a scenario where there aren't many limbs available between PSP where I want to go, or if there aren't many/any climbable limbs.

 

[SomethingWitty]

I'm guessing by your first post in this thread that to accomplish what I'm talking about, you would just use MRS with some kind of friction-reducing sleeve or device to advance?

I usually do, especially the Dan house rope sleeve.
Or use a beater rope for nasty pines and alternate up. There is no rule that says you have to make long jumps in both steps of heading up. Just clip a weight to the end of your MRS climb line and use that to advance (the rope sleeve also works well for this) and get secure at that point and repeat as necessary. Tricks are nice, but having a solid set of refined skills is much more important than having a bunch of extra hardware.

Hmm, guess I'm just a slow learner then because I still use a long lanyard and find it most useful and no more cumbersome than a short one.

OP, if you are just advancing your position in those pines you really do not need a friction saver at each point of advancement whether using SRS or MRS.

You are correct. Friction is not nearly as brutal on trees or ropes as everyone seems to believe, especially in small static movements.

I don't believe we have met, but I am inclined to believe you've been at it a while. (Correct me if I am wrong. If you're not an older climber, please consider it a compliment. You post with a sort of confidence and poise that I usually attribute to experience.) The long lanyards can make many movements much easier on the body and in many scenarios are worth using. Most of the time, I would rather be fast today and ache tomorrow. That may change over the next decade.
There is no way that you can move as quickly through a tree with a long lanyard to stow or baby-sit as you could without that burden. A few seconds hundreds of times a day adds up.

 

[southsoundtree]

Hmm, guess I'm just a slow learner then because I still use a long lanyard and find it most useful and no more cumbersome than a short one.

OP, if you are just advancing your position in those pines you really do not need a friction saver at each point of advancement whether using SRS or MRS.

I've got 15' fliplines with a hitch (works as standard DdRT), not rope-grab, to 40' rope lanyards, and points in-between. The right tool for the job. Most things get handled by the basics.

If you're jumping from tree to tree, or effectively-so between spread out leaders, with a high-TIP, you may want to advance a lanyard in your new leader/ tree, while preventing a pendulum-swing, whether that is a dedicated, two-ended lanyard, or just tying a quick-friction hitch on the tail of your lanyard. If I swing over to another tree or leader, I want to be locally tied-in-twice, for redundancy, especially as my climbing line-angle gets flatter and flatter.


Again, most things get handled by the basics.

If you're learning from the internet, from posts with lots of words, few pictures, fewer videos, err on the side of safety and security.


Some people, cough @rico cough, say a 540* wrap is a crutch. For full time use, yes. For judicious use, not a crutch.

I could run up conifers on one flipline within 5 minutes of pulling up to the job, but use my tools for my career longevity and quality-control.

If I am tied in twice, locally, or use a high-TIP and lanyard, I move faster, cutting more material, faster than if I have no back-up.


If a double-ended lanyard is a CF, streamline it. A Distel will tend without a pulley, reasonably. Scuba-clips, daisy-chaining, etc are ways to prevent dangly loops.



If I'm doing end-weight reduction/ tip-work, my work-positioning lanyard is not life-support. If I cut my climb-line out there, I'm breaking off what I'm working on, and going down with the ship. A climb-line and one end of a long lanyard on the trunk of a tree, with a little loop for a position lanyard at the tip is a win.

It only takes getting hurt once to take all the fun out of it, and possibly have some injury nag your for your lifetime. I'm very injury-averse. Go figure.

 

[LordFarkwad]

If a double-ended lanyard is a CF, streamline it. A Distel will tend without a pulley, reasonably. Scuba-clips, daisy-chaining, etc are ways to prevent dangly loops.



If I'm doing end-weight reduction/ tip-work, my work-positioning lanyard is not life-support. If I cut my climb-line out there, I'm breaking off what I'm working on, and going down with the ship. A climb-line and one end of a long lanyard on the trunk of a tree, with a little loop for a position lanyard at the tip is a win.

What does "CF" mean? One end of my lanyard currently has one of those leash clips (can't remember the actual name at the moment) for tending, and the other has a CMI mickey mouse pulley for tending.

 

[DSMc]

... If you're not an older climber, please consider it a compliment...

There is no way that you can move as quickly through a tree with a long lanyard to stow or baby-sit as you could without that burden. A few seconds hundreds of times a day adds up.

LOL! I am indeed an older climber but I'm going to take your kind words as a compliment anyway. Thanks.

I, however, have not found that your assessment of a long lanyard slowing in tree movement, to be true. My standard lanyard is 25' of Reep Schnur and a Trango Cinch. Most of that is daisy chained with about 8' in active play. Squeezing through tight limbs or swinging between them, it just is not a hindrance. Yet when I need it, I have all the 25' at my disposal with just a quick tug. That gives me a lot of options.

 

[JeffGu]

...lanyard is 25' of Reep Schnur and a Trango Cinch. Most of that is daisy chained with about 8' in active play...

I'm practically a museum exhibit, and I use a very similar arrangement... a Trango Cinch on 26' of 10mm HTP for my long lanyard, but a large ditty bag for storing it. Sometimes I've got 2 or 3 loops of it on scuba clips for management.

I've always got an 8' TriTech lanyard with a Petzl Zillon with me on the left side. I don't take a lot of other stuff up with me, as I'd rather just pull it up to me if I need to set rigging or haul up something else I need. I carry a small ditty bag with an 1/8" haul line.

But then, I'm never in much of a hurry. I can sit in a chair and watch people do things as fast as they can and try to shave a few more seconds here and there, only to spend half the day screwing off or fixing broken stuff between their high-speed spurts. It's rather like watching chickens.

 

[Burrapeg]

I have been using my 25 foot lanyard SRS fashion as a second short climb line also, when moving up past my first TIP in the cluttered conifers around here where it is hard to get the first TIP up very high through all the stuff in the way. (I usually move the end of the lanyard up with one of those extendable 9-foot SideKick poles. It lets me target a specific limb when it would be nearly impossible to accurately toss it up that high through the clutter). Anyway, it was awkward having the hitch bind sometimes so today I just added a 2-inch ring to the mix and converted it to this new Sticht Hitch. Only took a minute or two to add and, WOW, what a difference!

 

[SomethingWitty]

I'm practically a museum exhibit, and I use a very similar arrangement... a Trango Cinch on 26' of 10mm HTP for my long lanyard, but a large ditty bag for storing it. Sometimes I've got 2 or 3 loops of it on scuba clips for management.

I've always got an 8' TriTech lanyard with a Petzl Zillon with me on the left side. I don't take a lot of other stuff up with me, as I'd rather just pull it up to me if I need to set rigging or haul up something else I need. I carry a small ditty bag with an 1/8" haul line.

But then, I'm never in much of a hurry. I can sit in a chair and watch people do things as fast as they can and try to shave a few more seconds here and there, only to spend half the day screwing off or fixing broken stuff between their high-speed spurts. It's rather like watching chickens.

Believe it or not, you made a similar comment about rigging large pieces a while back that really resonated with me.
Since then, I have been focused on maintaining flow on the ground and in the tree as much as I can.
That leads to more quick decision making for me (will I have time to run over there and set a rigging sling, or should I hop to that low stub and get it out of the way first), which is fun, but it also encourages skipping hiccups that I come across. One that I didn't realize was such a big deal was loops that were clipped up getting snagged and requiring me to stop and put them back. Daisy chaining takes less time than pulling up another line, but the chain is a big old lumpy loop that snags as well.

To try and stay on topic: I cinch my lanyard very often, but I rarely use it for advancement like that. Both of those things are because it's barely more than a wingspan.
The experimenting I did with the synergy x hitch made it apparent that it was as smooth as glass on moving rope systems, I would assume that is because it has no bending/moving/ hard cinching components. If I wanted the best of both worlds, I would probably run it on a larger (11mm plus) lanyard just for my own peace of mind and certainty of function.

 

[LordFarkwad]

So, apparently what I was doing this morning with the 3:1 rig was similar to, or the same as, RADS. I've seen that referenced before, but didn't know what it was until someone I was corresponding with via text message today said it sounded like I was just doing RADS, which caused me to look the term up.

I can't imagine ascending an entire tree with a 1:3 progress ratio...eeesh. But, for climbing 10' above a PSP, it worked decently, especially considering the upsides (allows descent on just a hitch, ascent with no limbs or climbing, and no rope-tree friction)!

 

[Burrapeg]

Here are some photos of my 25 foot lanyard I sometimes use SRS as a short climbing line, with the new Sticht Hitch on it today. Two of the photos show my modded hand ascender with a pulley for adding some MA if I need it when working my way up a tree or swinging sideways. I got the idea of double daisy chaining the long lanyard from one of AJ's posts I think.

 

[climbstihl]

Here are some photos of my 25 foot lanyard I sometimes use SRS as a short climbing line, with the new Sticht Hitch on it today. Two of the photos show my modded hand ascender with a pulley for adding some MA if I need it when working my way up a tree or swinging sideways. I got the idea of double daisy chaining the long lanyard from one of AJ's posts I think.
View attachment 59513View attachment 59514View attachment 59515View attachment 59516

Looks nice. So you basically built your own CT quickroll.

 

[Jehinten]

I can't imagine ascending an entire tree with a 1:3 progress ratio...eeesh. But, for climbing 10' above a PSP, it worked decently, especially considering the upsides (allows descent on just a hitch, ascent with no limbs or climbing, and no rope-tree friction)!

Question for you, from my understanding you are throwing your lanyard 10' higher than your climbing system and choking it off, then climbing up to that point, but leaving your climbing system below? Then rappelling off of the lanyard back to your climbing system once your ready to descend. If this is the case how are you managing the choked lanyard that you need release once back on the climbing system? As I am sure you know you can ascend SRS on just a hitch, its the descending that causes issues unless you take weight off. If you want to go the 3:1 method you can always install a SCAM once you reach your cinched off lanyard, this will allow you to descend and remote release you lanyard once your back on your climbing system.

 

[LordFarkwad]

Question for you, from my understanding you are throwing your lanyard 10' higher than your climbing system and choking it off, then climbing up to that point, but leaving your climbing system below? Then rappelling off of the lanyard back to your climbing system once your ready to descend. If this is the case how are you managing the choked lanyard that you need release once back on the climbing system? As I am sure you know you can ascend SRS on just a hitch, its the descending that causes issues unless you take weight off. If you want to go the 3:1 method you can always install a SCAM once you reach your cinched off lanyard, this will allow you to descend and remote release you lanyard once your back on your climbing system.

That's 100% it. Will have to look up SCAM. Not sure what that is. Allot of my issue with devices is that all if my rope - of any type - is 1/2", which restricts my choice of mechanicals. Edit: I see that it is just "single carabiner access method", not a mechanical. Still reading...

But yeah, any complication above just a lanyard with hitch is due to the need to descend. That's actually the ONLY reason I tried the 3:1 to begin with; to take some heat of the hitch and keep it from locking.

I've tried making the choke retrievable with a little short piece of throw line. Works pretty well.

 

[Brocky]

Here are some photos of my 25 foot lanyard I sometimes use SRS as a short climbing line, with the new Sticht Hitch on it today. Two of the photos show my modded hand ascender with a pulley for adding some MA if I need it when working my way up a tree or swinging sideways. I got the idea of double daisy chaining the long lanyard from one of AJ's posts I think.
View attachment 59513View attachment 59514View attachment 59515View attachment 59516

Your hitch is more of a Distel Sticht, or a Stichted Distel, the original being only wraps/ round turns. Also the ring might be too large and allow slack from the wraps to transfer to the legs, making them longer, with extended use.