Pruning (Mainly Deadwood and Broken) Bunch of Red Maples: Bucket or Climb?

J

JayTree

Location
Somewhere
I have about 7-8 red maples in my back yard: https://ibb.co/cWOh5k. There are another 3 in front yard. A couple likely don't need much of anything but some others need more. Regardless we just moved in and for safety of us walking down (a lot of branches have come down in winds and don't want that to happen while we are under! Some pretty large) and the health of trees, we want them pruned a little bit.

They are already let a good amount of light through so really just want diseased and dead wood or broken stuff that's hanging gone.

We have had 2 people come in. One took weeks to hear back but ultimately charges $500 to entirely prune specific trees. Not sure how much less it will be if he just does deadwood and stuff.

The other guy says he can try to clean every tree up all in one day. I just found out he'd be using a bucket. I really don't want a truck going over all the roots and stuff. Some are very exposed.

Am I being overly cautious about the bucket? Not even sure how he'll get in here for some things given the trees are packed together.

Any recommendations helpful. Thanks!
 
Pictures or size of the trees would be great. A few years ago I was approached by a homeowners association with 67 red maples along their access street (35-45' tall) For several reasons the pruning was spec'ed as crown clean 2" and larger and reduction with target cuts between 1"and 3". Long and short of it we climbed these trees. Many times with a bucket truck what you can reach is what is cut, not necessarily what needs to be cut (not saying everyone does this). The cuts needed were mostly interior, in locations a bucket would have difficulties reaching.
Bucket trucks aren't bad, but a good climber can do better with less impact in many pruning situations.
Just my thoughts
 
Sorry didn't recognize the link. They seem (from the pictures at least) to be rather upright. This makes it even easier to climb.
On a side note I looked all over the ANZI a300 standard for pruning and am yet to find "entirely prune". For a most pruning projects a pruning spec should be written with the owners goals in mind. This makes sure that the client, sales Arborist and the climbing Arborist are all on the same page. I say most because there is some pruning the a client may want that would be silly and not be cost effective to take the time to write up the specs.

The free advice; don't nickel and dime the guys, do this not that... it's splitting hairs. And it's difficult for a good pruning Arborist to not do the right thing. That's why so many times we cost a bit more... it's gonna be done right !
 
Jesse Fortes said:
I have about 7-8 red maples in my back yard: https://ibb.co/cWOh5k. There are another 3 in front yard. A couple likely don't need much of anything but some others need more. Regardless we just moved in and for safety of us walking down (a lot of branches have come down in winds and don't want that to happen while we are under! Some pretty large) and the health of trees, we want them pruned a little bit.

They are already let a good amount of light through so really just want diseased and dead wood or broken stuff that's hanging gone.

We have had 2 people come in. One took weeks to hear back but ultimately charges $500 to entirely prune specific trees. Not sure how much less it will be if he just does deadwood and stuff.

The other guy says he can try to clean every tree up all in one day. I just found out he'd be using a bucket. I really don't want a truck going over all the roots and stuff. Some are very exposed.

Am I being overly cautious about the bucket? Not even sure how he'll get in here for some things given the trees are packed together.

Any recommendations helpful. Thanks!
Click to expand...

I think that being concerned about the root system is prudent. However, if this guy knows what he is doing, then a bucket can be used and cause no damage to the root system. I would set the standard and make him deliver on that. If you make him put in his contract that no damage will occur to the root system of the trees....then let him prune the tree however he wants. He will just be responsible for any damage that may happen. Which is the way it should be.
I personally hate it when a customer tells me that I can't use a piece of my equipment.....when I know that it is going to make my job easier, safer, and more efficient. I do not mind if a homeowner takes the time to tell me what their concerned about and we have a conversation to address their concerns.
With all that being said, I would climb those red maple trees....because most of the cuts needs to be made from the interior of the canopy.
 
TimberJack said:
Where is somewhere? Maybe you live in one of the buzzers is service areas or we could refer you to a contractor.
Click to expand...

I live in NY. Any of you guys from there? I don't want to be to specific on my location until start talking with folk. Mainly because I really need to change my damn username.
 
ROYCE said:
I think that being concerned about the root system is prudent. However, if this guy knows what he is doing, then a bucket can be used and cause no damage to the root system. I would set the standard and make him deliver on that. If you make him put in his contract that no damage will occur to the root system of the trees....then let him prune the tree however he wants. He will just be responsible for any damage that may happen. Which is the way it should be.
I personally hate it when a customer tells me that I can't use a piece of my equipment.....when I know that it is going to make my job easier, safer, and more efficient. I do not mind if a homeowner takes the time to tell me what their concerned about and we have a conversation to address their concerns.
With all that being said, I would climb those red maple trees....because most of the cuts needs to be made from the interior of the canopy.
Click to expand...

I understand not wanting customer to tell you how to do the job but everything you guys have said and nearly anything I read says climbing is really preferred for this.

I would prefer to just find an arborist who is willing to climb. While I'm sure it would take extra time, I imagine not using the equipment should save some sort of cost.

It's less about cost though and more about treating the trees right.

The only cost concern is that rather than fully pruning, just looking to clean each tree of dead and broken.

My hope is that an arborist could utilize climbers and have this cleaning done within a day. Rather than charging by tree.
 
You had two guys come in? Did you have two companies or two guys?
Anyone can buy a bucket. Don't be fooled by someone having a bucket truck. Pruning is skilled tree care. Access to trees via climbing or bucket is access to the work area. NO spurs for pruning.
Get references and creditials. Check them.
Specs on job should be discussed and written in detail.
Think about your root zone, lawn maintenance impacts, etc.




"The only cost concern is that rather than fully pruning, just looking to clean each tree of dead and broken"...

No offense meant here, just being straightforward, how do you know what the trees need? Dead and broken might be less of a concern than a bad fork (included-bark/ compression fork) that could be pruned for early intervention, or pruned to reduce loading on a fork and improve structure, lessening the risk of failure (more expense and loss of tree). A support system might be considered.


You might consider paying for a consultation by a qualified arborist. Knowledge is power.
Free estimates are worth just what you paid.
 
southsoundtree said:
You had two guys come in? Did you have two companies or two guys?
Anyone can buy a bucket. Don't be fooled by someone having a bucket truck. Pruning is skilled tree care. Access to trees via climbing or bucket is access to the work area. NO spurs for pruning.
Get references and creditials. Check them.
Specs on job should be discussed and written in detail.
Think about your root zone, lawn maintenance impacts, etc.




"The only cost concern is that rather than fully pruning, just looking to clean each tree of dead and broken"...

No offense meant here, just being straightforward, how do you know what the trees need? Dead and broken might be less of a concern than a bad fork (included-bark/ compression fork) that could be pruned for early intervention, or pruned to reduce loading on a fork and improve structure, lessening the risk of failure (more expense and loss of tree). A support system might be considered.


You might consider paying for a consultation by a qualified arborist. Knowledge is power.
Free estimates are worth just what you paid.
Click to expand...

No offense taken at all.

I only say this based on what the arborists I've had come in told me and through research I've done.

If our trees were young, they could certainly use more pruning but any pruning of codominant leaders at this point would ruin the form of the trees. So the main pruning seems to be cleaning. There are some trees that do have interferring branches that could be cut and hopefully they can but given the amount of trees we are trying to figure what is also most cost effective.

The first guy we had come would be climbing which I liked and did itemize the cuts that would be made which was also useful. However, he made no mention of cabling or the poor unions or included bark have on many of the trees.

His estimates were also quite a bit higher. Maybe it's what we should expect to pay though. He mentioned climbing and seemed knowledgeable. It was my first time speaking to an arborist and given the value these trees have to us, I felt another opinion was warranted.

The next guy, who mentioned it might be more cost effective to have his guys there for the day and just clean the trees rather than fully prune, is the one who wants to use the bucket. He also mentioned cabling and the importance of that to keep the weak unions strong.

Both of these guys are certified arborists and perhaps they would both do well. I still just want to make sure I feel 100% comfortable.

That's why I came here to get opinions of others who know more than myself. To your point, knowledge is power and I don't want to go ahead with anything without sufficient knowledge of the process.

Ultimately, I believe it would be truly ideal to do:

1. Clean - dead diseased and broke
2. Prune - lessen weight and remove interferring branches and troublesome branches
3. Cable - mature co dominant leaders.

And for now, trying to do it as cost effectively as possible. If I had the money to do it, I'd go all out but hoping that the day rate of some climbers could do the best they can on each try for the year and accomplish more next year when we have more money to do more.

Anyway sorry for rambling! Thanks for advice and appreciate the honesty.
 
I never looked at your pictures. However when clients express concern over the price the first thing I look at is if they can handle the clean up. Say it's a two person crew, climber and groundie. If they are both capable of climbing with out ground support the job could be cut in half.. many of us love no haul no chip jobs. It leaves us to do our best work, make trees beautiful / safe and a mess then go home.
 
Cabling does not seem warranted, and codoms can be subordinated, no removed.

"Interfering" branches can be grafted to each other.

Depending on where Somewhere is, I know where you can get a Board-Certified Master Arborist!
 
Cabling without subordination is malpractice in my opion and without looking it up in the ANSI A300 Im pretty sure they agree. Without knowing where in NY you are (I hear its a big state) the NY ISA chapter is hosting their annual Tree Climbing Competion in Tarrytown at Lyndhurst Park on 6/10/17. Go there if you can and mingle with some of the most passionate pros in the Arboriculture Industry. https://www.nysarborists.com/component/dpcalendar/event/5
You can also use this website to find more arborists in your area.
 
I just looked at your pictures. Pictures of trees are deceiving, they dont say 1000 words. What those pictures tell me is that the trees are medium in size and a bucket truck is hardly warrented, nor feasible to operate on your turf and critical root zones of trees without the use of plywood or ground protection mats.
 
evo said:
I never looked at your pictures. However when clients express concern over the price the first thing I look at is if they can handle the clean up. Say it's a two person crew, climber and groundie. If they are both capable of climbing with out ground support the job could be cut in half.. many of us love no haul no chip jobs. It leaves us to do our best work, make trees beautiful / safe and a mess then go home.
Click to expand...

I did offer that up to second person I spoke with. I don't mind clean up whatsoever since that's my time. Would rather talented arborist spend time really utilizing their expertise.
 
guymayor said:
Cabling does not seem warranted, and codoms can be subordinated, no removed.

"Interfering" branches can be grafted to each other.

Depending on where Somewhere is, I know where you can get a Board-Certified Master Arborist!
Click to expand...

Somewhere is in the Hudson Valley further up towards Albany.
 
Clean-up is definitely CAs working below their skill set.

Chipping yourself, with a rental chipper would provide mulch for your root zones, instead of lawn, and associated lawn care impacts.
 
TimberJack said:
Cabling without subordination is malpractice in my opion and without looking it up in the ANSI A300 Im pretty sure they agree. Without knowing where in NY you are (I hear its a big state) the NY ISA chapter is hosting their annual Tree Climbing Competion in Tarrytown at Lyndhurst Park on 6/10/17. Go there if you can and mingle with some of the most passionate pros in the Arboriculture Industry. https://www.nysarborists.com/component/dpcalendar/event/5
You can also use this website to find more arborists in your area.
Click to expand...

Wow. That's now too far from me! 2 hours at most. I'm also in Hudson Valley like Tarrytown but just further north. Perhaps I'll make my way there.

I will also use the website to find some folk.

And if anyone know someone on these boards that maybe I could speak with that might be my way.

I didn't realize that about cabling and no subordination. The one thing is... these maples are pretty large. They are about 2+ feet diameter about maybe 60 feet tall. I'm assuming as old as the home. So maybe even 70 years old?

Can a tree that size have major branches cut and still regain shape? That's my fear but I obviously am new to all of this. I know a younger tree certainly should be pruned appropriately but what about a mature one.

And while the trees are fairly large, they are medium size compared to large oaks and such I see around. Makes me feel better not wanting to go with someone should seems adamant about using the bucket.

The more I learn the more I feel really want someone who I can trust is an expert. As much as some of these local guys seem great, I suppose I spoke easily. And when it comes to these trees... they are simply irreplaceable. It takes decades to grow mature trees. They look great and add immense shade and help cool our home too.

I want to make sure I go to someone I truly have no qualms in trusting and I feel confident will help our trees.

While, yes, cost is a concern, it's also only an immediate one. I would hope that there could be a plan put in place to come back in a year to do s more thorough job if this year it's more limited.

Anyway thanks again for suggestion and everyone here for all the help.

It is really appreciated. This is a somewhat niche field where it's hard to get the right answers. Half the reviews of arborists online are just about cutting trees down. So it's tough to know who to go to and what information to trust.
 
Is there a forum on here to find services or talk to certified arborists in the area? Just wondering if there is somewhere I can reach out.

I am in Hudson Valley NY. Closer to Albany side of things then NYC.
 
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