How do we guild our craft?

F

frashdog

Branched out member
Location
Champlain valley, adirondack coast
Not a union.

How many other professions can flex deep skills, knowledge and understanding for the love and beauty of nature, work with (most of the time) living subjects, topped with a flair for freestyle and danger with the likes of MacGyver or the A-team. ...almost forgot about the money, money!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild

Welders/machinist/masons/architects/engineers come to mind as potentially deeply skilled and possibly artsy folk.

Usually the founders of guilds were free independent master craftsmen who hired apprentices.

For the moment, I'm done hiring "experienced guys". Talk big, want too much money, game days they choke. I can complain about what skills they don't posses, cause I assumed they were caped and able (capable)...but people with no knowledge on a subject, have no knowledge on the subject. Kinda not their fault.

My experience have led me to believe that people who have good attitudes, like outdoors, don't mind sweating and no skills/knowledge close to mine are the best employees long term. Seems I can mold them my style more easily. The investments are worthy so far.

What sustainable "collective leverage" could our guild put on our market, in all directions to benefit us and our craft?
 
Last edited:
frashdog said:
Not a union.

How many other professions can flex deep skills, knowledge and understanding for the love and beauty of nature, work with (most of the time) living subjects, topped with a flair for freestyle and danger with the likes of MacGyver or the A-team. ...almost forgot about the money, money!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild

Welders/machinist/masons/architects/engineers come to mind as potentially deeply skilled and possibly artsy folk.

Usually the founders of guilds were free independent master craftsmen who hired apprentices.

For the moment, I'm done hiring "experienced guys". Talk big, want too much money, game days they choke. I can complain about what skills they don't posses, cause I assumed they were caped and able (capable)...but people with no knowledge on a subject, have no knowledge on the subject. Kinda not their fault.

My experience have led me to believe that people who have good attitudes, like outdoors, don't mind sweating and no skills/knowledge close to mine are the best employees long term. Seems I can mold them my style more easily. The investments are worthy so far.

What sustainable "collective leverage" could our guild put on our market, in all directions to benefit us and our craft?
Click to expand...

As most of you guys know I am a Toolmaker and not an Arborist. Frashdog, I think that is a great idea and a good hiring attitude. Many many years ago during my apprenticeship I had an owner tell me straight out "You are not here to make me money, you are here so
can teach you and you can further the trade" it all continues with the next generation, even if some of them are lazy toads, lol.
 
We need trade schools. Mid State tech is an awesome example of a two year technical degree in Urban Forestry. We need, as an industry, to invest in training kids in high school and college for a career. If you live near a training center for arboriculture you need to support it with time and money and warm bodies in the seats.
Currently we are working to start a two year technical degree program in Urban Forestry in the Portland, OR area. We are very close to having a program up and running. I would love to see more places like Mid State or U Mass Stockbridge open up in every major region.
How can we do that? Partner with your local community college, preferably one that already has similar degree programs like forestry or landscape managment, and engage them about getting a program started. Donate money to the Tree Fund earmark you donation to go to a fund that supports and fosters arboriculture programs like the Collier Arborist Training Trust or the Frank E. Gamma, Sr Arboriculture Education Fund.

Frashdog, you live in northern NY? Do you support Paul Smith College? They are one of the few universities to offer an Arboriculture degree program. Hire an intern from them.
 
Stickers and patches. That'll show em! Seriously. I have looked for ages for a distance learning program for arboriculture. Sure would be nice to have a program I could participate in without having to live someplace really cool lke portland. I did the program at Rutgers but that was for my own learning early on. That was quite a few years ago too.
 
I started in high school at our local trade school. Since then they have gotten way smaller and offer less. Unfortunately you can't blame them really, less and less kids were going every year. The schools have become all about sending kids to college and whatever else the state pays them for. There is a huge gap in the trades industries between us old guys and the very few that are getting it them. I don't know when it became taboo to work with your hands but the world is in for a shock when there is nobody left to fix or build anything.
 
Trade school sounds good and all, but how can you compare that to starting out 100k in a debt with a degree in philosophy! ( or English or history etc etc, I think there's a school in portland that offers a degree in arts and crafts).
Just joking, I come from a place where real work isn't really done, everyone has office jobs and titles like 'logistics'.
I will be encouraging my kids to learn some real, functional life skills and to consider trade school (arb or other).
Interested in seeing the development here in pdx Logan!
 
Frash, can I ask how old you are? With your post about hiring "experienced" workers who talk big, you sound like you have been around the block once or twice. In my experience, it seems that real quality craftsmanship has just about disappeared off the face of America. It seems to me most people are only interested in price and short-term looks, as in "all show, and no go."

I remember 40-50 years ago, complaining about cheaply made products that would break or fall apart quickly, or service people that would be in a rush. Compared to now, those were the good ol' days! What happened?
 
I started a recreational tree climbing club in my city where I've started teaching newbies the very basics of tree climbing and also teaching industry professionals different climbing techniques, giving them an arena to practice methods that they wouldn't have the time to/wouldn't bother with on a work day. It's lead one climber already to adopt SRT as his new work style, and he much prefers it to what he was doing previously.

Count me in!
 
In the UK we have a well established system, not perfect but pretty good. If your thinking along the lines of a Guild then have a look for NPTC City and Guild. NPTC = National Proficiency Test Council. Although it covers many industry skill sectors it does have a very well covered section on Forestry and Arb. All the tools and skill sets are there. We are not permitted to work with out them. Assessors are independent and come from time served in the industry.
 
monkeylove said:
I started in high school at our local trade school. Since then they have gotten way smaller and offer less. Unfortunately you can't blame them really, less and less kids were going every year. The schools have become all about sending kids to college and whatever else the state pays them for. There is a huge gap in the trades industries between us old guys and the very few that are getting it them. I don't know when it became taboo to work with your hands but the world is in for a shock when there is nobody left to fix or build anything.
Click to expand...

That national trend is starting to shift back to technical college degrees again. With Obama's push to provide free community college for technical degrees, like Urban Forestry, we will start seeing more high school students being trained for a career. This is very exciting to me.
 
Ontario has a voluntary apprenticeship program. I went through it after working in the industry for 5 yrs. It's a good start and a model for others to look at. The class time was spent at Humber College. The industry itself has to establish this as the formal path into the industry instead of the current method which seems like not much more than, check for a pulse and chase 'em up a tree!
http://www.collegeoftrades.ca/wp-content/uploads/TS-Arborist_444A_EN.pdf
 
Waldo said:
We need trade schools. Mid State tech is an awesome example of a two year technical degree in Urban Forestry. We need, as an industry, to invest in training kids in high school and college for a career. If you live near a training center for arboriculture you need to support it with time and money and warm bodies in the seats.
Currently we are working to start a two year technical degree program in Urban Forestry in the Portland, OR area. We are very close to having a program up and running. I would love to see more places like Mid State or U Mass Stockbridge open up in every major region.
How can we do that? Partner with your local community college, preferably one that already has similar degree programs like forestry or landscape managment, and engage them about getting a program started. Donate money to the Tree Fund earmark you donation to go to a fund that supports and fosters arboriculture programs like the Collier Arborist Training Trust or the Frank E. Gamma, Sr Arboriculture Education Fund.

Frashdog, you live in northern NY? Do you support Paul Smith College? They are one of the few universities to offer an Arboriculture degree program. Hire an intern from them.
Click to expand...


How far out do you think, Waldo?
How much classroom/ field trip time/ distance learning?
 
Waldo said:
We need trade schools. Mid State tech is an awesome example of a two year technical degree in Urban Forestry. We need, as an industry, to invest in training kids in high school and college for a career. If you live near a training center for arboriculture you need to support it with time and money and warm bodies in the seats.
Currently we are working to start a two year technical degree program in Urban Forestry in the Portland, OR area. We are very close to having a program up and running. I would love to see more places like Mid State or U Mass Stockbridge open up in every major region.
How can we do that? Partner with your local community college, preferably one that already has similar degree programs like forestry or landscape managment, and engage them about getting a program started. Donate money to the Tree Fund earmark you donation to go to a fund that supports and fosters arboriculture programs like the Collier Arborist Training Trust or the Frank E. Gamma, Sr Arboriculture Education Fund.

Frashdog, you live in northern NY? Do you support Paul Smith College? They are one of the few universities to offer an Arboriculture degree program. Hire an intern from them.
Click to expand...
So, I live a tad over an hour from Smitty's. Grand parents taught there. Great school. Not too many jobs round here, yet. We also have boces http://www.boces.com/Page/1626 kids about to get dropped into a hack, outlaw lands round here.

Had a few guys from there looking for intern positions for the summer...at this point i'm not interested in short term turn over/coaching.

So far as i know, no school will show you how to properly execute a spike free crown thinning, coach you on multi leg balance crane rigging, demonstrate some double rope rigging action or vert speed lines or zip lines....goes on. No one want's to touch (address) what we really do.
 
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