Would this biner be legal in comps?
- Thread starter Jeremy9
- Start date
- Location
- Rochester, NY
Mark, can you explain how that pic could possible happen? I can see cross loading it with a sling or splice pulling against the gate, in doing so depressing the magnets, but as soon as the weight is removed the magnets would lock. How would you cross load a biner like your pick without it flipping over first. Again I'm not being critical just like to know.
I think if you spend enough time you can figure out a way to make any thing fail. I've unlocked a petzl OK by accidentally running a munter over the gate. That doesn't mean there is any thing wrong with it you just have to pay attention to what your doing.
I think if you spend enough time you can figure out a way to make any thing fail. I've unlocked a petzl OK by accidentally running a munter over the gate. That doesn't mean there is any thing wrong with it you just have to pay attention to what your doing.
[ QUOTE ]
Mark, can you explain how that pic could possible happen? I can see cross loading it with a sling or splice pulling against the gate, in doing so depressing the magnets, but as soon as the weight is removed the magnets would lock. How would you cross load a biner like your pick without it flipping over first. Again I'm not being critical just like to know.
I think if you spend enough time you can figure out a way to make any thing fail. I've unlocked a petzl OK by accidentally running a munter over the gate. That doesn't mean there is any thing wrong with it you just have to pay attention to what your doing.
[/ QUOTE ]
That was a very good post! I have been sitting here thinking the exact same thoughts. All things can be made to fail, if you try hard enough.
Is it really too much to ask that the professionals using these tools, use them in an appropriate manner?
David
Mark, can you explain how that pic could possible happen? I can see cross loading it with a sling or splice pulling against the gate, in doing so depressing the magnets, but as soon as the weight is removed the magnets would lock. How would you cross load a biner like your pick without it flipping over first. Again I'm not being critical just like to know.
I think if you spend enough time you can figure out a way to make any thing fail. I've unlocked a petzl OK by accidentally running a munter over the gate. That doesn't mean there is any thing wrong with it you just have to pay attention to what your doing.
[/ QUOTE ]
That was a very good post! I have been sitting here thinking the exact same thoughts. All things can be made to fail, if you try hard enough.
Is it really too much to ask that the professionals using these tools, use them in an appropriate manner?
David
- Location
- Austria, Europe
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Mark, can you explain how that pic could possible happen? I can see cross loading it with a sling or splice pulling against the gate, in doing so depressing the magnets, but as soon as the weight is removed the magnets would lock. How would you cross load a biner like your pick without it flipping over first. Again I'm not being critical just like to know.
I think if you spend enough time you can figure out a way to make any thing fail. I've unlocked a petzl OK by accidentally running a munter over the gate. That doesn't mean there is any thing wrong with it you just have to pay attention to what your doing.
[/ QUOTE ]
That was a very good post! I have been sitting here thinking the exact same thoughts. All things can be made to fail, if you try hard enough.
Is it really too much to ask that the professionals using these tools, use them in an appropriate manner?
David
[/ QUOTE ]
Although that is a very important discussion, its a much wider one isnt it?
@ Magnetron: Beside the "accidential-opening-thing" of the gate (which I am convinced not to be a problem on the Magnetron, unlike the Passo PL) my biggest concern was the gate face strength.
There is nothing in front of the nose to support it when loaded from the outside and that looks weird or at least I am very unused to that. (Thinking back to old AMB Ball Locks with sprung plastic gates...)
After talking to teh designer I am fine with that as well, as the gate face strength is 4kN, 2 kN for each button.
Thats very close to the "high-end" carabiners and much better then most other ones (incl other BD carabiners...
and I bet way better the the Skylotec also.
The Passo PL has the problem that the springs for the buttons are quite weak, they have to be to close the gate mechanism. I dont know the gate face strenght of it to be honest but I dont really care as I dont have any...
[ QUOTE ]
Mark, can you explain how that pic could possible happen? I can see cross loading it with a sling or splice pulling against the gate, in doing so depressing the magnets, but as soon as the weight is removed the magnets would lock. How would you cross load a biner like your pick without it flipping over first. Again I'm not being critical just like to know.
I think if you spend enough time you can figure out a way to make any thing fail. I've unlocked a petzl OK by accidentally running a munter over the gate. That doesn't mean there is any thing wrong with it you just have to pay attention to what your doing.
[/ QUOTE ]
That was a very good post! I have been sitting here thinking the exact same thoughts. All things can be made to fail, if you try hard enough.
Is it really too much to ask that the professionals using these tools, use them in an appropriate manner?
David
[/ QUOTE ]
Although that is a very important discussion, its a much wider one isnt it?
@ Magnetron: Beside the "accidential-opening-thing" of the gate (which I am convinced not to be a problem on the Magnetron, unlike the Passo PL) my biggest concern was the gate face strength.
There is nothing in front of the nose to support it when loaded from the outside and that looks weird or at least I am very unused to that. (Thinking back to old AMB Ball Locks with sprung plastic gates...)
After talking to teh designer I am fine with that as well, as the gate face strength is 4kN, 2 kN for each button.
Thats very close to the "high-end" carabiners and much better then most other ones (incl other BD carabiners...
and I bet way better the the Skylotec also. The Passo PL has the problem that the springs for the buttons are quite weak, they have to be to close the gate mechanism. I dont know the gate face strenght of it to be honest but I dont really care as I dont have any...
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
Thanks for posting the pics Mark. Can you send those to BD's designers? It's a new product that will benefit from such testing.
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
A tight eye on a hitch cord or rope end cannot slide down the gate to release the "paddles" from either direction on the Magnetron gate, the designers widened the gate on both ends to prevent that possibility. A loosened girthed sling could theoretically get over the paddles but that scenario is equally dangerous on any auto locking gate.
-AJ
-AJ
- Location
- Portland, OR
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Mark, can you explain how that pic could possible happen? I can see cross loading it with a sling or splice pulling against the gate, in doing so depressing the magnets, but as soon as the weight is removed the magnets would lock. How would you cross load a biner like your pick without it flipping over first. Again I'm not being critical just like to know.
I think if you spend enough time you can figure out a way to make any thing fail. I've unlocked a petzl OK by accidentally running a munter over the gate. That doesn't mean there is any thing wrong with it you just have to pay attention to what your doing.
[/ QUOTE ]
That was a very good post! I have been sitting here thinking the exact same thoughts. All things can be made to fail, if you try hard enough.
Is it really too much to ask that the professionals using these tools, use them in an appropriate manner?
David
[/ QUOTE ]
Totally agree.
[ QUOTE ]
Mark, can you explain how that pic could possible happen? I can see cross loading it with a sling or splice pulling against the gate, in doing so depressing the magnets, but as soon as the weight is removed the magnets would lock. How would you cross load a biner like your pick without it flipping over first. Again I'm not being critical just like to know.
I think if you spend enough time you can figure out a way to make any thing fail. I've unlocked a petzl OK by accidentally running a munter over the gate. That doesn't mean there is any thing wrong with it you just have to pay attention to what your doing.
[/ QUOTE ]
That was a very good post! I have been sitting here thinking the exact same thoughts. All things can be made to fail, if you try hard enough.
Is it really too much to ask that the professionals using these tools, use them in an appropriate manner?
David
[/ QUOTE ]
Totally agree.
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
They have introduced a new version of the magnetron. I broke down and bought it. So far, so good!
http://blackdiamondequipment.com/en/clim...L1.html#start=3
http://blackdiamondequipment.com/en/clim...L1.html#start=3
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
[ QUOTE ]
They have introduced a new version of the magnetron. I broke down and bought it. So far, so good!
[/ QUOTE ]
That's the one I really wanted! Superb design.
-AJ
They have introduced a new version of the magnetron. I broke down and bought it. So far, so good!
[/ QUOTE ]
That's the one I really wanted! Superb design.
-AJ
RopeShield
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
Worry free today on my tip chocked srt
- Location
- Austria, Europe
What did they change on the design?
Can someone compare it to the "old" versions (which I have)?
Would be cool!
Can someone compare it to the "old" versions (which I have)?
Would be cool!
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
[ QUOTE ]
What did they change on the design?
Can someone compare it to the "old" versions (which I have)?
Would be cool!
[/ QUOTE ]
The gate locking design didn't change, same functionality on a different carabiner design. The carabiner captures whatever you clip in to so it can't move and cross load the gate. They previously had that biner design as a manual twist locker, good to see it as an autolocker.
-AJ
What did they change on the design?
Can someone compare it to the "old" versions (which I have)?
Would be cool!
[/ QUOTE ]
The gate locking design didn't change, same functionality on a different carabiner design. The carabiner captures whatever you clip in to so it can't move and cross load the gate. They previously had that biner design as a manual twist locker, good to see it as an autolocker.
-AJ
- Location
- Austria, Europe
Thanks Moss, so you're just referring to the Grid Lock karabiner design?
The Grid Lock Magnetron as the Rock Lock Magnetron are out all the Year already, but the BD Page says they are new as well:
http://blackdiamondequipment.com/en/climbing-carabiners-quickdraws
Thats why I am confused additionally...
I think the colors of the buttons changed at least, mine are blue!
The Grid Lock Magnetron as the Rock Lock Magnetron are out all the Year already, but the BD Page says they are new as well:
http://blackdiamondequipment.com/en/climbing-carabiners-quickdraws
Thats why I am confused additionally...
I think the colors of the buttons changed at least, mine are blue!
- Location
- Austria, Europe
OT: The new version of the Skylotec Passo solved the unintended opening problem with building the gate thick so the buttons do not stick out anymore.
I can make a picture if someone is really interested in this.
I can make a picture if someone is really interested in this.
Richard Mumford-yoyoman
Been here a while
- Location
- Atlanta GA
[ QUOTE ]
They have introduced a new version of the magnetron. I broke down and bought it. So far, so good!
http://blackdiamondequipment.com/en/clim...L1.html#start=3
[/ QUOTE ]
I just bough one at Sports Chalet in LA a couple of days ago, could not keep from plying with it. I'm always looking for good ways to manage my flop and this one is great!
They have introduced a new version of the magnetron. I broke down and bought it. So far, so good!
http://blackdiamondequipment.com/en/clim...L1.html#start=3
[/ QUOTE ]
I just bough one at Sports Chalet in LA a couple of days ago, could not keep from plying with it. I'm always looking for good ways to manage my flop and this one is great!
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
It's been put through it's paces and working well. Have to make sure the eyes are a bit bigger for this design. Had a minor problem with some bark getting into the lock mechanism. I had to clear the debris before I could open it!
Jeff_Cochran
New member
- Location
- Memphis TN
this looks like a perfect hitch micro pulley 'biner. although i would prefer a dmm style gate with that configuration
- Location
- Basel, Switzerland
This locking mechanism has been discussed in the past.
I remain clear in my mind that it is not a triple action mechanism. This video, whilst in German, illustrates one of the issues. In my eyes this crab is essentially a snap with a degree of added safety and not compliant with arb best practice guidelines in many countries and therefore not suitable for life support, especially (!) in an environment which is cluttered and has moving lines in it – such as a tree canopy.
This is not saying anything about the karabiner itself, which for all I know may be spot on for certain applications, the opinion above merely relates to its use in tree care.
I remain clear in my mind that it is not a triple action mechanism. This video, whilst in German, illustrates one of the issues. In my eyes this crab is essentially a snap with a degree of added safety and not compliant with arb best practice guidelines in many countries and therefore not suitable for life support, especially (!) in an environment which is cluttered and has moving lines in it – such as a tree canopy.
This is not saying anything about the karabiner itself, which for all I know may be spot on for certain applications, the opinion above merely relates to its use in tree care.
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
Using the captured eye with a standard tight spliced eye or a cinching knot addresses this issue.
Last edited:
- Location
- Basel, Switzerland
Whatever. Fact remains: This is not a triple action karbiner.
