Why do you like the thinner ropes?

Woodwork

Woodwork

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Location
Tidewater
Hey, all, I'm kind of a noob or at least an amateur / weekend warrior(I've done some DdRT with Blake's Hitch and more recently some SRT with Unicender and Hitch Hiker II ... for which I bought a hank of Yale Blaze) ... my question is, I see in reading here that it seems like most of you folks prefer thinner ropes for SRT. Having handled Yale Blaze and the heavier Yale XTC Fire, I find that I prefer the heavier/thicker rope just because it feels nicer in the hands to me, and I like the way a Prusik loop grabs the larger-diameter rope.

Why do you folks seem to prefer the thinner lines? Is it mostly a matter of weight, or limberness...or what?

Thanks in advance for any replies. And sorry if this is kind of a noobie question.

Jeff
 
Woodwork said:
Why do you folks seem to prefer the thinner lines? Is it mostly a matter of weight, or limberness...or what?
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I started with things in the 11.7 range and although I’ve dabbled in 11mm it just feels too small, and harder on my hands. I’m gonna get a little raven-and-crone-y on you and say that 11.7 is about the diameter of my index finger, and I think that’s why it feels more natural to me.

a lot of 11mm folks are coming from rock climbing backgrounds where diameters are more around 10mm. So many great ropes and great ways to get up and down a tree.
 
Lately I’ve liked somewhat larger lines. I used 11mm almost exclusively for several years when I had choice. Now I use mostly 11.7s and two 13s occasionally. I just brought a 10mm line into service for a rare, specific task, but it won’t require any ascending, the worst part about small diameter lines.
 
Tuebor said:
I think guys are desiring more static lines which tend to come in thinner diameters.
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...and gal climbers too...

THat may read out in percentages but the issue of stretch in ropes is sooooo complicated.

Comparing stretch to a universal load needs to be understood. Not the % stretch compared to breaking strength.

Most climbs..except West coast bigguns...are rarely over 90'. Using even semi-static climbing lines introduces such a small stretch to be just about irrelevant.

After a career of gripping small diameter ropes the effect will be pretty uncomfortable. Any teeeeny gain from less stretch will be moot.

I think that what climbers feel as stretch in a rope is actually the movement of the TIP from the climber's load.
 
The thinner rope besides sport style climbing is for adaptability for mechanicals. 11.7 is the sweet spot if not too small like a true 11mm and not too big for mechanicals. But I agree I prefer a much thicker line when I can get away with it. The rope holds it own weight so unless advancing or moving your tail weight isn’t too much of a issue. I bought a hank of 13mm or full 1/2” htp and I loved everything but the stiffness of it. Didn’t work with a wench worth a damn, I could literally hang my full weight just on the rope wrench and simply lightly creep. I should try it with the hitchhiker but have already heavily used the line for rigging
 
Tom Dunlap said:
...and gal climbers too...

THat may read out in percentages but the issue of stretch in ropes is sooooo complicated.

Comparing stretch to a universal load needs to be understood. Not the % stretch compared to breaking strength.

Most climbs..except West coast bigguns...are rarely over 90'. Using even semi-static climbing lines introduces such a small stretch to be just about irrelevant.

After a career of gripping small diameter ropes the effect will be pretty uncomfortable. Any teeeeny gain from less stretch will be moot.

I think that what climbers feel as stretch in a rope is actually the movement of the TIP from the climber's load.
Click to expand...

Tom, I have to disagree with your last assertion. After 4 climbs on Samson mercury I sold it. It’s a rubber band. Right now I have 7 climbing lines that I’ve accumulated. A couple are similar in stretch, while others vary considerably.

I respect you and your perspectives, but am feeling a bit insulted here. Most experienced climbers know the difference between flex in an anchor point and rope elongation. Some of us can tell the difference in different colors of the same line. Whether it truly affects overall efficiency at less than 100’, I think you’re right- generally, not much. But personal feel plays a big part in personal performance. Then there are those certain lines that truly represent extremes on either side of the elongation equation. Lookin hard at you, Mercury.
 
No insult meant. I'm speaking in very general terms.

There is so much misunderstanding about rope stretch. The specs are read but misunderstood. Stretch is typically calculated as a percentage of breaking strength. It seems that it would be better to use a universal load applied to the rope and then measure stretch. A large diameter rope made of 'stretchy' material will have less stretch.

Interesting that you mention rope color. Going back many years New England Ropes was developing variations on their Safety Blue line. When each color variation was laid down in order of diameter it was evident to the eye, without a micrometer, that the white variation was the smallest and the other, six or seven iterations, were larger. All had the same strength/stretch specs though.I sent a note to NER asking why the ropes were different diameters. What I found out was that when the rope fibers were died the strength changed. White was the 'strongest' so it required fewer fibers to make strength spec. more fibers of each color were added to the recipe in order to have them all make the same spec.

Now we have so many more fibers and construction/weaving techniques available. Ropes do perform differently.

There are so many criteria to consider when buying a rope. To me, I've never been too aware or concerned about stretch as other criteria.

Color is important to me...I want to see my rope easily. Lime green is a favorite color LOL
 
I heartily agree that a standard spec would help clear a lot of misunderstanding.

My rope choice lately is determined by how well it works with my positioning setup and habits. My zigzag stays on an Ivy or similar line, as I use it for mainly ddrt and will occasionally use it in natural forks during removals.

The RopeRunner pro really likes xstatic- not my absolute favorite line, but the combination works so well. For a hitch based system I prefer kernmaster with a poly core. Escalator is also a great line for my wrench.

I have a couple bouncy lines that I don’t mind. They’re fun to use when there’s a lot of tree climbing vs rope climbing because you can sit back into them for a bounce back upward to another branch or union. However, they don’t come out much at all now that I’ve ended up with so many lines.
 
evo said:
The thinner rope besides sport style climbing is for adaptability for mechanicals. 11.7 is the sweet spot if not too small like a true 11mm and not too big for mechanicals. But I agree I prefer a much thicker line when I can get away with it. The rope holds it own weight so unless advancing or moving your tail weight isn’t too much of a issue. I bought a hank of 13mm or full 1/2” htp and I loved everything but the stiffness of it. Didn’t work with a wench worth a damn, I could literally hang my full weight just on the rope wrench and simply lightly creep. I should try it with the hitchhiker but have already heavily used the line for rigging
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i just bought 200ft of the same size htp your speaking of and feel the same as you do. i now wish i got a thinner version of it ad considered selling it but i think im gonna hang onto it for really tall pruning jobs and eventually retire it to rigging. i really do like it but it is definatly the most static and stiff line ive ever used.
i really do like how it seems i can use any 10mm hitch cord on it. i
i just got it last week and only got some rec climbs on it so id like to see how it feels on a crane job where ill be carrying a big saw and my rope in bag.
 
Woodwork said:
Hey, all, I'm kind of a noob or at least an amateur / weekend warrior(I've done some DdRT with Blake's Hitch and more recently some SRT with Unicender and Hitch Hiker II ... for which I bought a hank of Yale Blaze) ... my question is, I see in reading here that it seems like most of you folks prefer thinner ropes for SRT. Having handled Yale Blaze and the heavier Yale XTC Fire, I find that I prefer the heavier/thicker rope just because it feels nicer in the hands to me, and I like the way a Prusik loop grabs the larger-diameter rope.

Why do you folks seem to prefer the thinner lines? Is it mostly a matter of weight, or limberness...or what?

Thanks in advance for any replies. And sorry if this is kind of a noobie question.

Jeff
Click to expand...
I run the zig zag I'm an owner operator and was running the 11.5 teufelberger which was a great rope 11mm is too small for me it's crazy but .500 is huge I just bought the vortex 12.7 hot for when I use a blakes hitch figure it be better with its larger diameter only problem is I tried the zig zag and I can't go back to the teufelberger. Anyone running the zig zag put it on a 1/2 and enjoy
 
ATG716 said:
Build it and we will BUY IT
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it may be a few years (as I need the equipment, design and testing time)

but I think I can get one cranked out, just trying to think of a design that isnt too similar to one of the other name brand devices
 
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