when to stop FERT for season? Winterizing Rig?

macrocarpa

macrocarpa

Branched out member
Location
Midwest
When do others stop fall fert and start backlogging for spring?

Temps here range from 40-60 day temps dowm to 20-40 night temps recently.

I have heard some people say they continue ferting as long as the ground is not frozen?

My plan was to pull the plug within the 1st half of Dec but we had a cold spell and I'm wondering if it would be more beneficial to wait until spring now that night temps are getting into the 20's?

Also, has anyone had issues with spray rig freezing/cracking at night? I figure as long as its winterized before temps get into the teens it should be ok?
 
Fall fertilizing should be low in nitrogen as the N can force new vegetative (nitrogenous) growth that can be prone to winter injury without time to 'harden off.' If the fert is high in N, fertilizing should be stopped early enough to allow this process to complete, maybe September?

I'm not a fert expert, this is just what I have learned over the years. Someone with more insight may be able to give you a more complete answer.

-Tom
 
Here's what i think: Fall fert should be applied from late august until the end of october. Later in more temperate regions like the west coast or southern states (i'll leave the tropical regions out because i'm absolutely clueless as to how those systems work.)

Root growth begins to increase as shoot as wood growth slows, peaking in late september-ish. Refer to page 97 in "up by roots" for a chart. If you don't have up by roots, you need to buy it and read the whole thing.

You want the P to get into the soil and be available for this root growth hence the timing that i recommend. Too late and you risk leaching the fert out of the soil over the winter and during spring thaw.

All this applies only if you are applying chemical ferts which i think should only be done based on soil testing.

As for winterizing a rig, i'm nervous if temps fall below zero (that's canadian for 32 degrees). A busted head gasket or block would suck. Also, any ice that is in the lines that may run through a diaphragm pump could pierce the diaphragm.

So if you put off ferts until the spring, then the formulation should change to a more balanced fert (higher N). Once again, without a soil test i think that ferts are a bad idea.

I'd love to debate the pros and cons of fert in general more but it seems that there are not many on the buzz who are into that. Nothing but a bunch of gearhead, tree climbing competition hooked, earth loving hippies IMO. (that was a joke)
 
I will agree 100 % on ferts, being a bad idea, i go for healthy balanced soil, soil that is alive and healthy, you will always have healthy trees,plants etc. soil is one of my specialties i love the subject.
 
Thanks for the replies, the fert rig is winterized with RV antifreeze.

Starlet, would you mind going into further detail in creating "healthy balanced soil" for growing healthy trees? Lets say a homeowner has 2 oaks or maple specimens in the front yard, no mulch rings, all grass, trees are reaching maturity and in pretty good shape. What would you do from there? 1st assuming a soil test.

When I talk about fert, I am mostly doing liquid organics, myco injectable, soil injections and add sythetics when necessary. So when a lot of buzzers say fert is a bad idea, do you mean all liquid soil injections or just synthetic every tree gets the same formula high N production fert programs?

I am also borrowing an air knife and preparing to buy one so I can start doing other forms of soil enhancements, but I have a lot to learn about what products to use for various situations.

Recently bought the disease of trees and insects that feed books due to Guy's recommendation, now it looks like up by roots should be next on the list. thanks
 
Those trees sound like they're doing fine considering location. Maybe they don't need anything that they don't already have.

The soil problems are mainly compaction caused by the developer when they strip off the topsoil and prepare for optimal construction conditions. The last thing they care about is future tree growth. The simplest solution is to plant a tree that is hardy enough to survive not nessesarily thrive in this situation. On a small property a slow growing tree is the best. Natural soil conditions are too expensive for most homeowners to replicate so we make do.

Fertilizer sends growth to the areas of the tree that are not desirable. The tips. The roots are not encouraged to expand nor the girth.
 
Macro, there are some trees/shrubs that will need nothing, soil is not compacted and the test proves everything is good, what i do is times where soil is compacted i put as much compost/organic--have it tested to be sure it is of decent quality and an air-spade or air jnife really comes in handy for this you can do a 3' ring or larger depending on tree size, i mix the compost in with the other soil there and i use a product called PHC they have one that is used as a drench or soil injections. it is not high in nitrogen but helps to build the micros in the soil. if ever we are having a drought season i always keep them watered. i try to tell my clients to get rid of the turf, believe it or not most of them do. i have been very lucky as far as clients go. they actually which i am sure you know have a meter that can check compaction. now if a soil needs nitrogen i use a organic source, i try very hard never to use synthetic. about every two-three years i test the soil again, just to make sure ithas enough micro/ and macro needs. i think the trick is to test the soil and try hard not to use as much synthetics and pesticides/herbicides, that is what kills the soil organisms, once you have a healthy soil there is basically no work to it.
 
Starlet, like you I have a big interest in soils and when I talk to clients, or when I'm doing a talk I spend a lot of time on soil building. My feelings about soil are much as yours. I conceptually follow the soil foodweb model in a general sense.
I have suggested, without a lot of scientific backing admittedly to encourage people to aerate their lawns and then top dress well with organics. I think this helps the soil, and hopefully also the soil where tree roots live beneath turf. New suburban neighborhood lots in our area are completely regraded and therefore are without any meaningful soil at all unless the new owner is very savvy, and older neighborhood soils are usually badly compacted and impoverished.
I have come to accept liquid deep root fertilization as better than nothing where trees live in lawns and where soils are not or cannot be properly maintained.
But it's all just some kind of story I've put together in my head from bits and pieces that I've learned over the years.
The Up By Roots book is on my list too.
 
Frax
, i am hoping for that book for Christmas...boreal nice video..thanks. I am a real believer of soil great soil... i could talk soil and read soil all day.. my friends of course think i am a little strange.. trees and soil that is my life so if you do it for a living you really should do it right.
 
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When I talk about fert, I am mostly doing liquid organics, myco injectable, soil injections and add sythetics when necessary. So when a lot of buzzers say fert is a bad idea, do you mean all liquid soil injections or just synthetic every tree gets the same formula high N production fert programs?



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When i say fert is bad, i'm talking specifically about NPK chem ferts that are applied without test. I used to do this too, and i did see some very good results. Short term results more than likely.

We know that healthy soil needs good structure, texture and a diverse web of life but how do you achieve that affordably or for large trees in landscapes that don't allow soil disturbance? I think the best we can do is liquid injections of organics. Mycorrhizae for a first application, then products rich in humates, broken down plant matter etc. We use a kelp formulation. We've also started using RhizoFuel which claims to contain a great diversity of mycos and other organisms.

My biggest problem is and likely always will be: how do i get a tree owner to pay for the appropriate treatment? Soil remediation for large trees can get expensive. Annual treatments may seem daunting to a client. Many people want one drug that can be applied once and fix the problem.

James Urban in a presentation hit on root exudates as being a generally unknown quantity in soils. In one off liquid treatments, we should be moving towards emulating their effects on soils.
 
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New suburban neighborhood lots in our area are completely regraded and therefore are without any meaningful soil at all unless the new owner is very savvy, and older neighborhood soils are usually badly compacted and impoverished.

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Peter Del Tredici calls it 'The urban glacier,' as in, the soil left behind from development is like glacial till. His book is more about plants and their adaptivity, but there's a good amount of soil study backing up his information. If you ever get a chance to see him speak, do not hesitate! Here's a link to the book, sorry for the bit of derail!

http://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/cup_detail.taf?ti_id=5580
 
Thanks for the link Tom. This is exactly the sort of book I would like. Have to figure out how to get it past the domestic police. I apparently have enough books. The NE is well out of our region but no matter - most of it would be relevant anyway.
I'll keep an eye out for Mr Del Tredici's work.
 
I am really excited to hear that people in the industry are doing the RIGHT thing when it comes to fertility.
Having been in the indusrty forawhile I was one of those guys just drilling holes and filling them with 10-20-20, all I can say now is oops!!
First and foremost you must do a quality soil test to find out your soil analysis, remember folks its not always low amounts of nutrients that can cause problems, excessive amounts of nutrients particularly phosphorous can be a nightmare to your soil profile causing all kinds of nutrient tie ups, thus meaning NO AVAILIBILITY
!! Be kind to your soil, it is and needs to be a living organism!! AS far soil supplements go try Mr Natural, little pricey but great products.
 
Is this product the name of the company selling it or is it just the name of the product? do they sell wholesale? i am always on the look out for good products.
 
Im sure they will sell wholesale, they have a number of products in their company, I used a number of their products and really like the results as well as the philosophy behind each product.
If you need anymore info let me know, and as far as fertilizing through fall alot depends on your soil temps keep that in mind also, organics are also the way to go!!
DP
 
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