What would you do?

[Fairfield]

Here is something I was thinking up the other night at work.
You have a climber working on taking down a spar. The climber after bucking off a section you notice him/her go limp and is not responding to you.

The climber's waist line is just under the top of the spur giving the rescuer no traditional high point. There is also no other tree/ hight point around to tie into and you are to high for a ground ladder or ladder truck. There is no worries about trauma due to the groundie watching the whole time, and stating that the climber never was hit. This is purely a medical issue. The climber is spiked in and had a lanyard keeping him/her from falling.

How are you as the rescuer going to go about making the rescue? Keep in mind the clock is now ticking on the chance of making the medical problem two fold with the setting in of suspention trauma.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Call 911 or equal FIRST!

Set the crews rescue plan in motion.

First Aid kit...gear...

it all depends on who is around at the moment and their skill/training abilities.

If that happened to me, since I'm the climber now, I'd be in rough shape but my helper could get me down. He has climbed a little and could get me down since my SRT setups are configured with a ground belay built into them. He may have to climb up to get my lanyard off though.

 

[Fairfield]

I like your style. Tom is your SRT when blocking down, to have your line come from the ground (locked off down there) then thru a pulley or biener up by you then to you?

 

[Pstuffel]

Is the rigging gear set? Spur up. Tie in victim. Cut or remove lanyard and have groundie lower on the porty???
Spur up set false crotch. Belay down from top off of fig8??? This is assuming there is no c-spine like you said.

Not a rescue expert. Just some ideas.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

An adjustable sling/Rope Guide-type setup is choked as my TIP on a spar. It gets moved down in steps as I block down the spar. My anchor/belay is at the bottom like my typical setup.

 

[Fairfield]

Lets keep in mind that in order to transfer weight onto a lowering line you have to have to get the victim's weight off of the lanyard and spikes. Also doing so without droping the vic any amount. The problem with that is the vic is in line with the top. Setting a anchor will still leave slack that will most likely be below the vic (makeing it not poss for weight transfer in that way).

Tom has prob the ultimate answer that starts with the climber just covering them self. Not everyone does that, which leads to my question.

 

[Pstuffel]

Here in lies the problem I had with the AR class for CTW. The scenario was the simplest and only one of many that might be encountered in tree work.
Ropes course rescues taught us a cut away method that does provide some shock loading to the rescuers line. This was many years ago and they may have changed there practices. But in a pinch when someones life is on the line a small shock load to your system may be appropriate?????????????

 

[UpYourTree]

Simple technique we use at work,

Rescuer climbs to victim, with a rescue rope, ties clove hitch around the spar, tie a munter hitch, snap that biner to the clove, attach to victim, cut him loose, and lower him on the munter, can be backed up with a friction if you like.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Up,

Do you clip the lowering biner, the one with the munter on it, around the double wraps of the clove hitch?

I missing a few things from your description. Can you make it up and post a picture?


Even if you did this on the opposite side from the clove hitch cross overs I'm not at all comfortable with that setup. The clove hitch isn't meant to be loaded that way.

There are many other, more secure, ways to make a lowering point.

 

[Raven]

I think he means to dead end the line to the top of the spar with the clove and lower the victim with a Munter on the static line. Fairfield is suggesting that the vic's lanyard is at the very top of the spar(or there abouts). The scenario is tricky, there's only so much room at the top for intricate rigging, two climbers, and all their assorted gear. I think after practicing this several times you'll come to the conclusion that you would like to be lowerable for a rescue to be effective - climb line acting as a second lanyard won't cut it when time is of the essence. Transferring the weight of a limp victim to a new system is very difficult.

If the rigging block is there then why not use it? If the bucket is there then use that too. If the FD will be there in less than ten minutes then use them too.

I like Tom's use of a ground based belay and while reading his post a little light turned on. I used to think that the groundie would need to reset the belay every time the climber moved down, but that's only true if the climber is tied to the END of the line, but if you're tied MIDLINE then you can simply ADVANCE your line as you move the false crotch down and the ground belay can stay put unless needed for a rescue. With enough rope the descent/lower could be performed by either the climber OR the groundie.

 

[Fairfield]

Have not tryed this but let me know what you all think (good or bad).

1: After reaching the climber tie a line just lower then the victim to the spar

2: cut two notches into the the top eege of the spar (one on each side of the victim)directly across from each other

3: take the tail end of the line you tied off and place it over/in the two notches. This line will be used as a high point.

4: tie a directional 8 on the last said line so that the end of the loop will fall just over the edege of the spar.

5: at this point you can snap biener into the directional 8. pass a line into it that connects to the vic and runs to the ground.

6: the crew on the ground can take vic's weight, you can un snap vic's lanyard and lower to ground.

Like I said I have never tried this before and it is all just a thought. It does in theory allow for not cutting and droping of any kind. The whole notch thing I know will work but then again you better make sure you cut them deep enough.

 

[dieselcutter]

Tom on your SRT system. When rigging it would seem that there is the possibility of a block slamming your line. What are your thoughts on this. I've heard of this happening and cutting rigging lines. And it would seem that a climbing line would be vulnerable as well. I've had people ask me about this when I've been talking about trying the F8 system.

Back to the thread. What I do is use an adjustable friction saver. All a rescuer would need to do is spike up to me,take any snack out of my line unclip my lanyard and lower me on my system. Either settiing his line and decending with me or decending on his spikes.

I have done a quick self rescue before I needed a rescuer because I had this system. ( I was knocking off a dead stub and hit my wrist with my silky) I just had a short amount of time to get down before things started getting serious.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Eric smoked out the adjustable part of the SRT spar setup

Oh, yes, there is a chance of limbs coming down and snagging the belay end of a ground anchor SRT setup. This has to be accounted for when setting up this system. In the years of fine tuning my SRT systems I always had groundies who were switched on. If they couldn't have a higher level of awareness for my rope then they didn't lower for me.

Another SRT option is to choke the line at the top and be setup for rapping down. This eliminates the ground belay but does put the climber in a rap/lower system without a changeover from just using a lanyard.

These complex rescue scenarios need to be worked out with everyone's feet firmly on the ground. A log or barrel can be substituted for a victim. All of the rigging arrangements can be simulated, there's no reason for anyone to leave the ground while you're working the systems out.

 

[Fairfield]

Tom, how does your rope stand the chance of having the logs hit it? I am under the impresstion that your line is between you and he spar and runs stright down from there. I can understand maybe your anchor line getting taped.

 

[Jamin_Mayer]

Ok. I like all of the above suggestions, but you all forgot about... Using the climbers line as a pull line and notching the spar over. Okay, I'll get out of here

I had to, it was just right there tempting me.

The more mature reply:

One thing I've thought about is contacting other tree companies in my area ahead of time. Sharing contact info with eachother, making rescue plans with eachother, and practicing ariel rescues at least 2 times per year.

So, in the event of a rescue (after 911 was called) the next call would be made to the hand full of professional arborists who are trained to get a climber down fast. And I don't mean fast as in the suggestion I mentioned above. I mean as fast as necessary. As fast as the injury will allow for.

I've read of horror stories of firemen taking hours for a rescue. Where a professional arborist would take minutes.

 

[tomthetreeman]

[ QUOTE ]
Eric smoked out the adjustable part of the SRT spar setup

[/ QUOTE ]

I was asking myself the same question, but I figured it out after a little thought.

-Tom

 

[Fairfield]

[ QUOTE ]
Tom, how does your rope stand the chance of having the logs hit it? I am under the impresstion that your line is between you and he spar and runs stright down from there. I can understand maybe your anchor line getting taped.

[/ QUOTE ]

Disregard

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Jamin,

Networking like that is the perfect scenario. Have the names and all contact numbers laminated and posted in the cab of all of your fleet.

First call---911
Second call---arbo 911

 

[southsoundtree]

[ QUOTE ]
Jamin,

Networking like that is the perfect scenario. Have the names and all contact numbers laminated and posted in the cab of all of your fleet.

First call---911
Second call---arbo 911

[/ QUOTE ]

Jamin-- Great Idea.

Tom-- Great addition to help get the idea into action ASAP in the case of an emergency.

(Credit due to another poster)-We should always make sure that the crew knows the address, or has it readily available to them, such as knowing the street that they are working on and can see the number on the house, or that the work order has the complete address, and is always in the same spot, like the dashboard.

 

[UpYourTree]

When working near conductors rather than having all your info on the dash, you can put your important info on a window using a grease pencil, that way in case of an electrical contact you don't need to get into the truck to retrieve your folder.