what the...?

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Corpses can't spend money

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Besides Tom if you have fear of doing your job you should find new type of work. The ones who get hurt the worst are the scared one trying to do more than they can.

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ya bud thats a stupid answer hes putting a throw line in the tree to do a pull test to see if the tree has any red flags its 2009 bud hes not scared he just charishes his life and i dont blame him i put a line in every tree and do a pull test and will tell any manager or inspector to mind their own bisness its my life on the line not theirs who wants to climb a damaged tree blindly just doesnt make sense to me so for you to say if hes scared he shouldnt be in this work is just nonsense if he was on my crew i would expect him to do a pull test and also to bring up his hand saw cuz when u think you wont need it you will and that just goes back to the poiunt that these days most the climbers are more advanced and up to date then their managers IMO.
cheers!
 
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1. how would you react?



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I would chuckle slowly as I bent down to pick up a handful of dirt. I would play with the dirt, slowly pouring it from one hand to the other while calmly explaining that I am more interested in doing my job safely than getting killed out here. As he marinates on that, I would quickly throw the handful of dirt in his eyes and as he is writhing on the ground in pain, I would take his pick up truck to the nearest bar, and spend my whole paycheck on Miller Lite and chicken wings.

But that's just how I roll.



SZ

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applaudit.gif
 
Well... he's the guy that signs your check so unfortunately you have to respect him. I would answer each of his questions with respect. Your boss is communicating to you who he is, and what he stands for.

How do you feel about that?

And I wonder how he feels about the answers you gave him? maybe you made him think, then again maybe he's an idiot...
 
This week we had a client call with an 18" dia live oak laying in his yard. The crew got there and cleaned it up. The tree was as green and alive as any of them in the neighborhood.

BUT!!! There were NO buttress roots!!! At ground level the tree was about 24" across...the root ball was only about 30"...the roots were all rotted off. I asked our production mgr if he would have climbed the tree. He would have without a concern...but not now!

Doing a pull test is important. Taking a bit of time will keep a climber alive.

Time is money...until speed leads to an accident or death...or...the worse thing than work, which is rework. If a climber zips through a job and doesn't do it right, who pays for the rework? It should be the climber doing it for free, off the clock, but that isn't the case. The bad ol' owner has to pay for the rework.

There will always be a conflict between sales and production and production and safety. Keeping the triangle in balance takes skill.
 
How true.

I lost count, just like the fatalities in tree work, of how many watermain or gasline or sewer workers get buried because the foreman or management scrimps on the requirements of ditches and labor. And this is just for San Antonio.
 
I appreciate the comments, I am always amazed at the variety of thoughts on any given subject.

I have to say I like my boss I consider him a friend, he can be temperamental at times, and I try to respect the fact he takes an enormous risk as an entrepreneur. I would be shocked if I learned he did not respect the risk and physical effort, and mental energy I put into every day.

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Well... he's the guy that signs your check so unfortunately you have to respect him.

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I do respect him and i hope he respects me. But I would like to be clear about the fact that I am writing his pay check by completing the work he sells. not a half-a$$ version of what he sells, but providing exactly what he has sold to the people writing both our checks and taking it very seriously that it is up to me to have major impact on keeping clientele and generating referrals.
 
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I do respect him and i hope he respects me. But I would like to be clear about the fact that I am writing his pay check by completing the work he sells. not a half-a$$ version of what he sells, but providing exactly what he has sold to the people writing both our checks and taking it very seriously that it is up to me to have major impact on keeping clientele and generating referrals.

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So, I guess what you're saying is that he can't survive without you?
 
he can survive without me, he did before he hired me. My ego is not big enough that i believe i am irreplaceable. im saying that it is not unfortunate that I have to respect him, its simply a fact that I do. Not because he writes my check. heck I would not work for him if i didnt. I could write plenty about things I like about him, I just wanted to fish for any thoughts that would justify not carrying a hand saw or not setting a line or not doing a thorough assessment of an obviously flawed tree.

actually on second thought He cant survive as a tree business without someone like me douse not have to be me but someone like me. or better yet someone like Holly who apparently douse not need to bother with such time wasting nonsense as safety and will get his arse up any tree if you stuff enough cash in his pants.
 
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. Did anyone say anything about death? I belive he was takling about getting a talkin to at work for being scared to do his job, and not doing it in a timely manner. Wants to use couple safty issues to back it. Souned like the boss wasn't buying anything he had to sell.

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Im not scared to do my job. Im scared of what can happen if I am not mindful of my actions and do not perform my job carefully.

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if you have fear of doing your job you should find new type of work. The ones who get hurt the worst are the scared one trying to do more than they can.

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I’m no expert on safety statistics, but id put money on the likelihood of accidents being more commonly attributed to moments of poor judgment, over confidence in the ability to perform work above skill level, or basically not knowing when to walk away or back down. Complacency I would think is up there, just because you got away with something a few times douse not make it safe. How many times did those guys that are no longer with us stand on the feed table kicking at brush or get there booger getters close to the feed wheels before the one time they became minced meat.
 
trust your gut. it took me a while to have a feel of wood strength in dead trees. i think sometimes i push the envelope but i think back at the times i've seen dumbasses that rig leads on half hitches on the bull rope. it get scary. it's dumb to push the limit. i never set my line with a throwball when doing removals, unless if i want to set a rigging point or if the tree is dead (therefore setting the rope in another tree close by). i just strap on the geckos and get it done. i've left companies b4 because i thought they were unsafe. sometimes thats what it takes.
 
just strap on the geckos and go eh cowboy you wouldnt be working for me we control everything except the stability of that tree so why wouldnt you get an idea of the stability of the tree before you go up instead of climbing it blindly after practice it only takes an extra 15 mins and could save your life IMO your an accident waiting to happen.
cheers!
 
Pushing the comfort level is how we get better sometimes...That said..It has to be done with the knowledge it is safe to do so. either through a more experienced person guiding you through it or you knowing through inspection it is safe to do so.


I WOULD RATHER BE RIDICULED THAN REMEMBERED.
 
Do it your way, its comfortable for you. I work with a guy he'll beat me into the tree everytime but I beat him to the ground everytime. Speed doesn't mean your good... but in this industry a lot of people think that. Talk to your boss, mine did that to me a couple of months ago... he screwed the whole job up and we went from a one day job to a two day job.
 
MOST times, I stress most times. I usualy like to have as much knowledge about the tree im gonna climb as i do the people im working for. If they roll another way you have to be sick sharp to shut them up. Meaning production counts all the time as an owner. Saftey and production as a climber. Hopefully he has hired or contracted me for reasons that would make him less likely to worry. As owners we reserve the right to bitch about all. Sometimes you better hope you hit the shot you want the first time and tangle nothing and it better take only 3.2 seconds for all. Just kiddn about the time, but you get my point? Old school dudes hate throwline alot because its "stupid". Untill they get good with it or see someone good with it. I always climb with a good sharp handsaw. It weighs nothing compared to the baggage alot of climbers carry anyway! The longer anyone is at this trade they will hopefully gain all the requisite skills to have bosses or owners like that buy you a pop or 2 cuz u just keep gettin it done for him! Even with that goofy little bag on a string and that silly old handsaw. Great thread! CLIMB ON! But keep the pins sharp dude.
 
The thing is, with this trade there is always going to be someone else willing to do the "unsafe jobs". The way the industry is going right now is to help us (the "crazy tree climbers") do our job a little safer. If it takes an extra 10 min to isolate a limb and conduct a pull test so be it. 10 min more to do a job safely and properly far outways getting the job done 10 min or even 1 hour sooner all the while putting ppl and property at risk. We are professionals and we shouldnt be out there working like "cowboys" to get the job done a little bit sooner.
 
thanks for the info. i'm still a young climber in production company. if a tree is stone dead and i wouldn't climb it. i miss working for a large company, that has the right equipment, like buckets and log trucks. i definitely miss preserving trees too. i won't be a cowboy any more. smarter not harder. i want to live to climb another day. hey canada, i would be working for your company any ways. Canada is too cold for me.
 
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owner was on site today

first tree was a large co-dom hackberry lots of decay from what used to be a major anchor and three feet up the stem

as soon as i began proding at the decay the owner said that tree is safe to climb and wanted me to throw my spikes on and climb the tree

I began tossing a throwline within 3 tosses he asks why I would set a line in removal i could spike.

I clip my handsaw on my saddle and he questioned my choice to carry a hand saw on a removal.

my questions are ???

1. how would you react?

2. why would you not want a line that you could test the integrity of a tree from the ground and then use it as a tool to ascend it?

3. Is it ever a bad idea to carry a handsaw?

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1. I would react calmly and take the opportunity to explain my approach and the rationale for it. I was taught to use HOPE when starting a job: Hazards, Obstacles, Plan, Execute.

2. Point out the decay and root issues that are leading you to a pull test. Again, point out that your concern is for your own safety, the company's liabilities and the client's protection. You wouldn't want to see the tree fail while it's being removed and damaging the property.

3. A hand saw is another tool in the box. I always carry one. It's useful for removing small branches that are in your way without having to go through the starting up of the chainsaw. I don't leave the chainsaw running as this is a waste of fuel and can leave you needing a refueling while in the midst of a removal so it's more convenient to pull out the handsaw.

His attitude may have been more a function of other pressures. He was stressing and wanted to see the work getting done. If you don't take on his stress then you can better manage him. Maintain your integrity by not bending to pressure to take shortcuts where so much is at stake. Look at the "Awakenings" thread and you'll find examples of accidents that will justify your precautions.

Too often these are referred to as "freak" accidents. Um, no. It is the ignorance of the victims too often that lead to them. You are using your knowledge to advantage.
 
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