What is your specialty / niche?

[evo]

I've always tried to specialize in trimming and tree care, but to be honest we end up doing a lot of removals to make ends meet. It's very difficult to pass up certain jobs because of an ideology. What happens when a customer needs a big removal but you would rather pass because you prefer trimming, so you give it to another company, but then 2 years later that customer has a big trimming job they need done? They won't be calling you. Reality is, at least in a smaller market like mine, specializing is very difficult. I don't want to be known as a guy who does "anything with trees and chainsaws", but then, there's reality to grapple with...

I don’t know about your POV. My market is tiny, limited by saltwater and a broken ferry system.
Two things can be done.
Make referrals or sub out removals you’d rather not do.
The other is simply not specializing in ‘trimming’ but specializing in exceptional pruning, and other nuances that other companies can’t or won’t do. I was told contrary by all the ole timer arborists, ‘gotta do removals, it’s bread and butter.’
One shifted after they saw there was a market for pruning.
There is a niche for that in between landscaper and tree removal rockstar. It’s a very wide niche and it takes a lot of effort to become indispensable within that niche. Big removals require big overhead. Jack of all also requires a bigger overhead. Building relationships where you are indispensable, where you can make recommendations on large removals, yet still have a client after the referral is gold.

Not bragging but I can go out and make a decent profit doing 2-4 small jobs other companies don’t want to touch because they are too small. While leaving the guys to pluck away on a more mundane project. These days I can gross X2 + the profit goal..

Also not going to lie, sometimes I loose clients because they want the one stop shop. It can feel like 60/40 (60 lost), BUT the longer I’m in this that ratio comes back around and is closer to 20/80.. I’m simply not a one stop shop, and strive for exceptional quality.

 

[climbingmonkey24]

I've always tried to specialize in trimming and tree care, but to be honest we end up doing a lot of removals to make ends meet. It's very difficult to pass up certain jobs because of an ideology. What happens when a customer needs a big removal but you would rather pass because you prefer trimming, so you give it to another company, but then 2 years later that customer has a big trimming job they need done? They won't be calling you. Reality is, at least in a smaller market like mine, specializing is very difficult. I don't want to be known as a guy who does "anything with trees and chainsaws", but then, there's reality to grapple with...

Up to this point I’ve primarily “specialized” in pruning, the occasional smaller-medium removal, and shrubs / hedges. And I’ve had jobs where there’s pruning work but also removal work. In the case of it being a removal I don’t want to bid for whatever reason (maybe I think it’s better suited to a larger operation), I will still provide a quote for the pruning part if they want one and I have had people hire me to prune and then they find someone else for the removal.

I’ve also had multiple times where it’s just a large removal and I recommend they get a quote from someone else, but have had more than one person tell me that they appreciate my help and recommendations (even if I’m not bidding on the job) and if they ever need any pruning work done they’ll give me a call. And I think that’s because I don’t just tell them “I don’t provide this service” but generally try to help in anyway I can. Whether it’s referring them to somebody else, answering their questions, or just guiding them in the right direction for what they’re looking for. And I do my best to return all messages / voicemails as fast as possible.

Now, things may vary depending on the area, and overhead is also a big factor. If you want to be a trimming and tree care focused operation with little removal work and stay profitable, then it probably doesn’t make sense to be rolling out with enough iron and equipment that costs in the high hundreds of thousands if not near a million dollars. Keep costs low, and those lower priced pruning jobs suddenly become more profitable and there may not be as much need to take on the extra removal work.

I don’t know anything about your operation so not trying to give an opinion or anything on what you’re doing, just talking in general here from the point of view of someone who has focused primarily on that trimming / tree care niche.

 

[EasternArborist]

"Cut N Chuck"

 

[Muggs]

I don’t know about your POV. My market is tiny, limited by saltwater and a broken ferry system.
Two things can be done.
Make referrals or sub out removals you’d rather not do.
The other is simply not specializing in ‘trimming’ but specializing in exceptional pruning, and other nuances that other companies can’t or won’t do. I was told contrary by all the ole timer arborists, ‘gotta do removals, it’s bread and butter.’
One shifted after they saw there was a market for pruning.
There is a niche for that in between landscaper and tree removal rockstar. It’s a very wide niche and it takes a lot of effort to become indispensable within that niche. Big removals require big overhead. Jack of all also requires a bigger overhead. Building relationships where you are indispensable, where you can make recommendations on large removals, yet still have a client after the referral is gold.

Not bragging but I can go out and make a decent profit doing 2-4 small jobs other companies don’t want to touch because they are too small. While leaving the guys to pluck away on a more mundane project. These days I can gross X2 + the profit goal..

Also not going to lie, sometimes I loose clients because they want the one stop shop. It can feel like 60/40 (60 lost), BUT the longer I’m in this that ratio comes back around and is closer to 20/80.. I’m simply not a one stop shop, and strive for exceptional quality.

I agree with everything that you are saying, I really do. I have 3 employees to keep busy. That changes the situation for me. I fantasize about the small overhead/small equipment/small crew thing. Totally agree that I would rather run around doing 4 or 5 smaller trimming jobs than a big removal. Probably make more money as well.

Also, to be honest, I don't hate removals. I hate dealing with big wood, but that's about it.

 

[climbingmonkey24]

Another thought…

If you’re already invested in a larger scale operation and don’t want to downsize or want to test the waters first, could always have a removal crew and a smaller 1-2 man crew for trimming and other smaller sized jobs.

Even starting with just a pickup and dump trailer would be plenty to go out and take care of trimming jobs. That would allow for that “specialized” approach and for trimming jobs to get the same priority as removals if there is a crew just for that.

And see how it does for a while, compare the numbers of the trimming crew with the removal crew, and that may help give an idea as to whether it might be worth it to transition to a more pruning / maintenance focus, etc.

 

[evo]

I agree with everything that you are saying, I really do. I have 3 employees to keep busy. That changes the situation for me. I fantasize about the small overhead/small equipment/small crew thing. Totally agree that I would rather run around doing 4 or 5 smaller trimming jobs than a big removal. Probably make more money as well.

Also, to be honest, I don't hate removals. I hate dealing with big wood, but that's about it.

I think you could do it, if you make the shift and put your mind to it.
I have two employees, and some equipment as well. Lucky the only payment I have is the new chipper at $1k per mo.
We gross in the ball park of 400k. X4 work days, averaging 28 feild worker hours per head per week. Payroll makes a huge dent in the gross, and the rest typically goes back into overhead, or expanding.
With my body being unhappy with me I’m climbing less and less. But what I am able to do, is 0-3 days per week line the guys out, work a couple of hours to make sure the job is flowing well enough for me to run off. Then I might hit up a couple of jobs per week that fall into my half day minimum. I typically can bust out 1-3 of these solo in a day. This accounts for .5-.75 of the min daily target, rendering the job they crew is working on ‘extra’ income.

You could then be much pickier about the removals you WANT to take on. I am not 100% pruning only. And while I do focus on pruning we do quite a few small simple removals. I do have a sick and twisted love for felling big trees, and I think my record is 17 mature hemlocks almost all with assistance felling (tag lines and redirects). That one only required limbing once on the ground.

Until recently I used a 9” gravely chipper solely, my first “dump” is a f-250 with a dump insert.
Now I have a mini skid, and an Isuzu FRR. Along with the new bandit 12”.
I should charge more, make a bigger profit, actually put something away into a retirement account, maybe have a bit of savings.
But my efforts at this point is more efficiency, more pay for all, more ‘maintenance’ contracts, and spending time with the family.

 

[climbingmonkey24]

What is the price range of those dump inserts? And what kind of cab was it prior?

 

[evo]

What is the price range of those dump inserts? And what kind of cab was it prior?

I found one in Canada, made by a boat builder custom for a farmer. Paid 2k and it’s made from aluminum, I really like the design opposed to common manufactured units that rely on a sub frame and scissor hoist.
Cons are it’s wobbly when dumping a heavy load. And the tail gate hinges from the top. It’s easily removed but there is enough flex on it with a load the side pressure makes it very hard to get the tailgate back on with out dumping the load. A fairly rare occurrence.

 

[climbingmonkey24]

I found one in Canada, made by a boat builder custom for a farmer. Paid 2k and it’s made from aluminum, I really like the design opposed to common manufactured units that rely on a sub frame and scissor hoist.
Cons are it’s wobbly when dumping a heavy load. And the tail gate hinges from the top. It’s easily removed but there is enough flex on it with a load the side pressure makes it very hard to get the tailgate back on with out dumping the load. A fairly rare occurrence.

Nice. 2k isn’t bad.

I’ve been contemplating whether to look into one as an addition to my dump trailer, or just upgrade to a bigger dump trailer or go all out and get a dump truck. I like the “landscape” dump body style as I think they’re sometimes called.

 

[evo]

Nice. 2k isn’t bad.

I’ve been contemplating whether to look into one as an addition to my dump trailer, or just upgrade to a bigger dump trailer or go all out and get a dump truck. I like the “landscape” dump body style as I think they’re sometimes called.

They are a nice option for hauling mulch, gravel or other loose material that is dumped in by a front end loader. My Isuzu has a landscaper style dump, since I primarily blow chips I just made a roof for it.
I’m considering taking out the dump insert and plopping it on a trailer. I think that would provide better function and come in lighter than a normal dump trailer of the same volume

 

[RyanCafferky]

My business operates in a few realms. I built my business primarily doing contract climbing in the Portland market. Most of that work is difficult removals and end weight pruning of mature trees. I still do some of that these days but now my time is limited since I’m running a crew in my home market of the Columbia Gorge.

Our tree crew doesn’t specialize. I would prefer to focus on pruning and the occasional removal but the reality is that in our market we have to do a bit of everything to keep our team working. Especially if we are trying to work year round. If I laid off my crew and just did the work with subcontractors and my fiancé then we could be more picky and specialize more by keeping overhead lower. But I don’t want to do that because I genuinely like our crew and the flow we have going when we work together. Work is fun rather than a chore.

 

[Serf Life]

I like the mix. A week of removals makes me want a pruning job and vice versa. Have a 3-7 day project then a punch list day of three small jobs. We do lots of woodland work which may be thinning, trail construction, forestscaping, blowdowns on islands, view improvement etc. and have large percentage of lesbian clients as far as a niche.

 

[Lignotuber]

Mostly consulting work like risk assessments, appraisals, and tree preservation reports. Also all sorts of PHC, and home orchard care. I guess nitch would be managing palms to control South American Palm Weevil pests. I'm pretty deep into that to the point of conducting my own research trials, custom equipment and techniques.