unnecessary removal soap box

ginkobalboa

ginkobalboa

Location
above the KY rhizosphere
I said something about it in the Red Wing commercial thread and thought it merits its own discussion. It drives me crazy to go to a property to quote a removal of a tree that is perfectly healthy and nice, assuming it is not encroaching valuable property and so on. I try to talk the customer out of removing, but that works sometimes and sometimes it doesn't. There have been two in the past two weeks (keep in mind, I sale part-time). This one yesterday was awesome. It was a 36" American Elm in a very nice neighborhood. The tree is in great condition and hopefully I convinced the lady the tree probably wasn't going to kill her or her grandson. Hopefully we'll be able to do the minimal pruning it needs and treat it for DED.

So my question is, how do you guys approach these situations?
 
Yeah, that's really tough. Sometimes you just can't get thru to homeowners, they already have their minds made up.

I approached a guy last year with a backyard full of big, beautiful Burr Oaks. He says "I wanna cut them all down". I almost turned white with horror. "They are too much of a mess, and I need this place so I can deal with it myself"(the guy was disabled and was walking with a cane). I'm sitting there thinking, he shouldn't be doing ANY yard work whatsoever.

So, I proposed doing a thorough prune to eliminate the dead wood, and tried to sell him on the fact that 8 Oak prunes would be less than 2 of the removals(all of these trees were between 24-30" DBH). "Nope, I want 'em cut down".

I told him he would have to find someone else, because it was a reckless and irresponsible thing to do to an entire yard full of perfectly healthy trees. He didn't like hearing that, but I wasn't gonna leave there until he knew it was a bad idea. I'm pretty sure his neighbors were happy I didn't do it, as other adjacent backyards also had some majestic Burr and White Oaks.

If it was a long time client, I'm sure the conversation would have went differently. But with a potential new client, it's really tough once they have been stewing over a certain idea for a period of time.

I'm glad to hear that the lady you talked with might turn the corner and do the right thing.
 
That is the most frustrating part of the job for me. People are already set on how "dangerous" the tree is, it has too many leaves, it is too tall, it's messy, etc,etc. I always try keep in mind that public education on the value of trees is critical, but it can be so angering at times... People just don't understand the value of trees in the community and all the inherent benefits. I assume it's because it's such a 'me, me, me' world these days, that people lose sight of 'us'.
I dream constantly of running my company based purely on phc, pruning, and the overall care of trees. The only removal work would be dead or storm damaged tree or removals 'justified' by me. I feel that if there were several companies in every city/town willing to do this, that maybe a slight shift in thinking about the benefits of trees could be seen. There's always the 'if I don't do it, someone else will' argument, but let them have the sap on their hands and perpetuate the ignorance.
I got into this profession because I love taking care of trees and climbing, not to kill them with reckless abandon. Just my $.02.
 
I try not too stand on soap boxes, I find they are often really slippery.
Seriously tho, and I could care less what people think, Im not here to educate the world on trees.
I wont, and dont lose an inkling of sleep if some healthy tree gets killed. It happens everyday all over the world, healthy trees get cut down, fact of life, and not one that I am going to affect the change of anytime soon.
People want a tree removed I couldnt really care what the reasons are, they obviously want to remove the tree if I am standing in their yard.
I try not too impart my value system on other people, they have phoned me to remove a tree, if I take the job, I go remove said tree and leave the reasoning to the HO.
 
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I said something about it in the Red Wing commercial thread and thought it merits its own discussion. It drives me crazy to go to a property to quote a removal of a tree that is perfectly healthy and nice, assuming it is not encroaching valuable property and so on. I try to talk the customer out of removing, but that works sometimes and sometimes it doesn't. There have been two in the past two weeks (keep in mind, I sale part-time). This one yesterday was awesome. It was a 36" American Elm in a very nice neighborhood. The tree is in great condition and hopefully I convinced the lady the tree probably wasn't going to kill her or her grandson. Hopefully we'll be able to do the minimal pruning it needs and treat it for DED.

So my question is, how do you guys approach these situations?

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You also thought the tree in the Red Wing commercial was perfectly healthy when it had a tottally rotted core. The middle of the tree no longer exists, but you figured, just by looking at it, the tree looked great and healthy.
Its dangerous to assume we know everything, when so often we do not.
 
There is a big difference between the fast growing forests of British Columbia and the urban or suburban forest of Louisville or most other American cities. Perhaps enough of a difference to make one value trees in different ways.
 
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I said something about it in the Red Wing commercial thread and thought it merits its own discussion. It drives me crazy to go to a property to quote a removal of a tree that is perfectly healthy and nice, assuming it is not encroaching valuable property and so on. I try to talk the customer out of removing, but that works sometimes and sometimes it doesn't. There have been two in the past two weeks (keep in mind, I sale part-time). This one yesterday was awesome. It was a 36" American Elm in a very nice neighborhood. The tree is in great condition and hopefully I convinced the lady the tree probably wasn't going to kill her or her grandson. Hopefully we'll be able to do the minimal pruning it needs and treat it for DED.

So my question is, how do you guys approach these situations?

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You also thought the tree in the Red Wing commercial was perfectly healthy when it had a tottally rotted core. The middle of the tree no longer exists, but you figured, just by looking at it, the tree looked great and healthy.
Its dangerous to assume we know everything, when so often we do not.

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Grais, Please read the rest of my comments on that thread. Thanks!
 
im constantly disappointed by the sales reps at my job because there is rarely an effort or explanation given to clients to keep trees that only need structural improvement or something instead of remove them and to remove trees that are structural sound. sometimes working where i do (a landscape company) is pretty disappointing as a young arborist...
although in doing PHC visits and having a lot of conversation with clients, it makes it easy to make a good name for myself with the clients since no one else discusses as much with them
 
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I try not too stand on soap boxes, I find they are often really slippery.
Seriously tho, and I could care less what people think, Im not here to educate the world on trees.
I wont, and dont lose an inkling of sleep if some healthy tree gets killed. It happens everyday all over the world, healthy trees get cut down, fact of life, and not one that I am going to affect the change of anytime soon.
People want a tree removed I couldnt really care what the reasons are, they obviously want to remove the tree if I am standing in their yard.
I try not too impart my value system on other people, they have phoned me to remove a tree, if I take the job, I go remove said tree and leave the reasoning to the HO.

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Trees are an environmental resource, and a community asset. If the client had a river running through their yard, is it ok to put a dam in it or pollute it because its 'on their property?' If the HO bought the house and owned it for one month before flipping it, is it OK to come in and cut down a few 200 year old trees because or their ill-informed reasoning?

If you are not educating your clients you are part of the problem.

Tom
 
From a sales perspective, doing removals with reckless abandon would only provide me customers. I want clients; people who will call me again and again over the years. If I can convince them their tree has value, assuming there is no major risk, that's what will happen. If I remove the tree just because they don't like it, there's more of a chance I will never hear from them again, especially if it is the only tree on their property!
 
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I dream constantly of running my company based purely on phc, pruning, and the overall care of trees. The only removal work would be dead or storm damaged tree or removals 'justified' by me. I feel that if there were several companies in every city/town willing to do this, that maybe a slight shift in thinking about the benefits of trees could be seen. There's always the 'if I don't do it, someone else will' argument, but let them have the sap on their hands and perpetuate the ignorance.

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x10!!!


This is exactly the set of principals I am building my business on. Luckily I live in an area with a very receptive community of home/land owners.
 
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Yeah, that's really tough. Sometimes you just can't get thru to homeowners, they already have their minds made up.

I approached a guy last year with a backyard full of big, beautiful Burr Oaks. He says "I wanna cut them all down". I almost turned white with horror. "They are too much of a mess, and I need this place so I can deal with it myself"(the guy was disabled and was walking with a cane). I'm sitting there thinking, he shouldn't be doing ANY yard work whatsoever.

So, I proposed doing a thorough prune to eliminate the dead wood, and tried to sell him on the fact that 8 Oak prunes would be less than 2 of the removals(all of these trees were between 24-30" DBH). "Nope, I want 'em cut down".

I told him he would have to find someone else, because it was a reckless and irresponsible thing to do to an entire yard full of perfectly healthy trees. He didn't like hearing that, but I wasn't gonna leave there until he knew it was a bad idea. I'm pretty sure his neighbors were happy I didn't do it, as other adjacent backyards also had some majestic Burr .

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Did he kill them anyway?
 
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Yeah, that's really tough. Sometimes you just can't get thru to homeowners, they already have their minds made up.

I approached a guy last year with a backyard full of big, beautiful Burr Oaks. He says "I wanna cut them all down". I almost turned white with horror. "They are too much of a mess, and I need this place so I can deal with it myself"(the guy was disabled and was walking with a cane). I'm sitting there thinking, he shouldn't be doing ANY yard work whatsoever.

So, I proposed doing a thorough prune to eliminate the dead wood, and tried to sell him on the fact that 8 Oak prunes would be less than 2 of the removals(all of these trees were between 24-30" DBH). "Nope, I want 'em cut down".

I told him he would have to find someone else, because it was a reckless and irresponsible thing to do to an entire yard full of perfectly healthy trees. He didn't like hearing that, but I wasn't gonna leave there until he knew it was a bad idea. I'm pretty sure his neighbors were happy I didn't do it, as other adjacent backyards also had some majestic Burr .

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Did he kill them anyway?

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I'm guessing he did. There are plenty of "bring 'em down" tree services in his area of N. Illinois...so I'm sure someone took it on. Really, really sad situation. Probably one of the most ignorant, stubborn, and dense human beings I had ever talked with.
 
I respect urban loggers, companies that sell removals without pretense. What gets me is companies that say they provide tree *care* servies, or Scientific tree care, but don't.

The worst ones know and care very little about pruning and phc options, but say they do. They sell "tree structure evaluations" that do nothing but DEvalue the tree structure. They go on a witch hunt for defects, and justify removals based on pure bullfeathers.

One old client was scared by such a hack who pointed to a lichen and said it was killing the tree. Luckily someone took the time to educate him a little. Defrauding the public seems like breaking the law to me.
 
Hmmm.

Not a personal attack Guy. My hmmm is aimed at this misguided movement that managing trees doesn't involve live tree removal and all phc is good phc. Who are you guys really trying to convince?
 
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Hmmm.

Not a personal attack Guy. My hmmm is aimed at this misguided movement that managing trees doesn't involve live tree removal and all phc is good phc. Who are you guys really trying to convince?

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Boreality,

Can we agree that prophylactic DED treatment is a good idea, especially for a tree that is a property's focal point? I don't want to be selling snake oil either.
 
Simply because they're an invasive treatment.

My only experience with them is removing dead trees with plastic viles drilled into them. Looked like an expensive injury to the tree.

Why the root flare? Put the injury out of sight for the human and move it to the most structurally important area of the tree? That's exactly where I wouldn't want to drill.
 
So do you shoot invasive wood peckers out of the tree Boreality?

jomoco
grin.gif
 
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