Trunk cinch climbing- see update in OP

[Ron]

Update:
In one of my posts below, I state that the Rig or Grigri could be used as an ascender. It occurs to me the Rig or Grigri can <u>NOT</u> be used. This is a Texas configuration with the foot ascender below the harness ascender. When you stand on the foot ascender you could not move the Rig or Grigri. Tom suggested a Microcender and that should work fine also a small toothed ascender like the PMI Compact should work well. I also put this update in the post referenced.

First this is something arborists would rarely, if ever, need to do so I considered putting this in the rec climbing forum, but this is the answer to a pro need (not arborist) so I opted to put it here.

A fellow 'buzzer' PM'd me asking for suggestions about how to climb when he gets up high in the tree and the trunk gets small with no worthy limbs to support his weight. Gaffs could be used, but I got the impression that would not be desirable.

After lots of email exchanges to define the need, and some experiments, I came up with this. It's not really new, I came up with most of this about three years ago, but added an effective variation to it and minimized hardware requirements.

I started out with three ascenders, and will have a video up of that soon, I hope. However, YouTube has some kind of upload problem that a lot of members are experiencing. This has been ongoing for about three weeks now and YouTube is purportedly working on the problem. But since I can upload from school on a highspeed link and can't at home on DSL (I, and others, get a unknown error message), I'm wondering if YouTube just doesn't want to tie up resources for the long periods of time it takes to upload on slower links. Anyway, back to the subject...

This worked better than I remembered. At the beginning I review a more common method and explain why it is ineffective. So you could jump over to about the 1:30 mark to get to the real thing.

Although I use a running bowline with a Yosemite finish on one rope and a spliced eye on another (because that's what I had), to cinch the trunk, one could close the loops with screwlinks instead to better accommodate passing small limbs etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgm1maKGao8

 

[GibsonTreeCare]

Re: Trunk cinch climbing

looks cool Ron, I commented on the vid, and I will probably try it out on some jobs up here

 

[Jamin_Mayer]

Re: Trunk cinch climbing

Nice video

 

[Ron]

Re: Trunk cinch climbing-check the update in OP

Thanks guys!

GibsonTreeCare,
I thought about the VT and wondered how it would do. I wonder if the VT would require a few more wraps to work on SRT due to the heavier loading.

I was also concerned that the VT may stretch more than the helical, especially if extra wraps had to be added and the more something stretches, the less climb room you have.

I noticed in the video that the single line from the helical to the harness had stretched, but I could have easily adjusted that out.

Update:
With regard to the Rig or Grigri in the following paragraph: It occurred to me the Rig or Grigri can NOT be used. This is a Texas configuration with the foot ascender below the harness ascender. When you stand on the foot ascender you could not move the Rig or Grigri. Tom suggested a Microcender and that should work fine.

BTW, one could use an ascender in place of the friction hitch. If your climbing rope was the rope you climb on instead of the short rope I used, and you used a Rig, Grigri, and maybe a Uni in place of the friction hitch, you'd be ready to descend all the way to the ground if desired by just removing the second short rope and the foot ascender.

If you get a chance to give it a 'test drive' I'd be most appreciative if you could give me some feedback.

Thanks!

 

[southsoundtree]

Re: Trunk cinch climbing

Hi Ron,

So that's the face to go with the voice. So interesting that we interact online, but if we were in a room, we probably would not be able to ID another Buzzer.




I have thought about a similar system for climbing trees/ smooth trunk palms.

As you said, using a Rig/GG/ Uni with long enough climbline would allow an emergency escape from any point. The Uni and Pantin would make a very efficient combo. Stand on Pantin, Uni advances. Sit on Uni, advance Pantin.

A pantin and hitch/ ascender with backup prussic or could be used for fast, leg-powered ascent.





Let's say a person had to climb some closed canopy conifer trees that had little taper and little in the way of branches (as I had to do on a cat rescue recently), or a tree which had being canopy raised, which seems like what you had.

If one were to attach the climbline with running bowline, and had a branch or pole (say from a bigshot or pole pruner) attached to the loop of the running bowline, then one could advance it much further for each "pitch". With a telescoping pole each pitch might be 15-18'. The pole would then hang on the loop ready for advancing once you reach the end of the pitch.



When you reach the top of the pitch, you could have a second running bowline'd rope with a 'biner attached via clove hitch (use a backup or stopper knot if desired to secure CH) to your bridge for a comfortable sitting position, then loosen the climbline's RB, and use the pole to advance to the extent of your reach.

I think that this would reduce the need for gear and switching back and forth. No systems would change, and the climbline would always be backing up the resting CH TIP. A Uni would be best as there would always be an emergency exit line. One could advance the rope past branches/ crotches in the standard ways.

 

[Ron]

Re: Trunk cinch climbing

southsoundtree,
Yep that's me, I'd recognize me almost anywhere.

And, I'm gonna look a lot thinner by the end of summer. Stress eating Fall and Spring semesters, well...

Yeah, there's lots of variations that could customize it advantageously. The main reason I used a helical is to look at the least hardware intense or most minimal (most minimal

).

I have tried the pole thing and I have mixed feelings about it. Certainly a good idea, but it is extra gear and doesn't always work as expected. For example the pole can only lift one side of the cinch loop and the other side sags and snags sometimes. It's hard to get the entire loop around the tree like it should be and then load it before it slips. I guess one would have to evaluate the advantage vs the trouble and use whatever wins out.

Yep, the Uni and Pantin would make a good combination. I'm not sure I'm fully up to speed with you, but when one starts to advance the cinch, his weight needs to be fully on that second cinch I used, or something.

In addition, I needed a footloop on that second rope to stand in to advance the other cinch. But, one can simply sit on the second rope, release the Pantin, or feed rope through it and the Uni, and advance the cinch with the pole, unless there were small limbs that would have to be dealt with.

 

[southsoundtree]

Re: Trunk cinch climbing

[ QUOTE ]
southsoundtree,
Yep that's me, I'd recognize me almost anywhere.

I have tried the pole thing and I have mixed feelings about it. Certainly a good idea, but it is extra gear and doesn't always work as expected. For example the pole can only lift one side of the cinch loop and the other side sags and snags sometimes. It's hard to get the entire loop around the tree like it should be and then load it before it slips. I guess one would have to evaluate the advantage vs the trouble and use whatever wins out.

Yep, the Uni and Pantin would make a good combination. I'm not sure I'm fully up to speed with you, but when one starts to advance the cinch, his weight needs to be fully on that second cinch I used, or something.



[/ QUOTE ]

That first comment made me laugh.

I think that the pole idea would have some hiccups. My idea is that a person would have to do more than lift the pole to advance it, more like lift and work it side to side some. No testing on this end, only armchair imagining.

I'm wanting to make a few videos for a friend and when I find the time, I'll try my idea, and video it if it is successful.

I know nothing about video editing, so it won't be as cool as yours by any stretch of the imagination.

The footloop seems optional, with the full climber's weight on the bridge, maybe with a leg-scissors around the tree for stability.

The small branches would certainly be a hassle that would have to be dealt with either way. I was thinking that long advance idea would be good on trees that have been climbed before for pruning, moreso than rec climbing, or unpruned trees.

 

[Ron]

Re: Trunk cinch climbing

[ QUOTE ]
...I think that the pole idea would have some hiccups. My idea is that a person would have to do more than lift the pole to advance it, more like lift and work it side to side some. No testing on this end, only armchair imagining....

[/ QUOTE ]
Ain't nothin wrong at all with armchair imagining. I bet a lot of good stuff comes from that activity!

[ QUOTE ]
...I'm wanting to make a few videos for a friend and when I find the time, I'll try my idea, and video it if it is successful.

I know nothing about video editing, so it won't be as cool as yours by any stretch of the imagination.

[/ QUOTE ]
Don't sell yourself short; go look at some of my early videos - I had to do a LOT of learning and I'm still learning.

[ QUOTE ]
...The footloop seems optional, with the full climber's weight on the bridge, maybe with a leg-scissors around the tree for stability...

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not quite following you on the footloop being optional, but I just may not understand it. Oh wait, I think I see what you're saying. I'm thinking like I did it in the video, i.e. put the foot ascender on the secondary rope and move it up as high as possible so when I stand, I stand higher and hence get more reach. But if I read you correctly, you're thinking just transfer weight to the secondary rope/lanyard/whatever and advance the primary with a pole or whatever. And yes you can do that. The way I did it, without the pole, I needed to maximize my arm/body reach because I didn't use a pole so I needed the footloop on the secondary rope to maximize reach.

[ QUOTE ]
...The small branches would certainly be a hassle that would have to be dealt with either way. I was thinking that long advance idea would be good on trees that have been climbed before for pruning, moreso than rec climbing, or unpruned trees.

[/ QUOTE ]
That long advance is an excellent idea! I had to do a 40' climb like this in a pine tree that had no limbs until about the 60' point and they were questionable and I was chicken about it anyway. But I used two very lightweight telescoping poles to set the cinch as high as possible and it does help. I didn't have little limbs to deal with so that helped too.

If you have editing questions, I'd be glad to share what I've learned, I probably had the same questions myself.

I'm eager to hear what you find when you try out your ideas, I can almost hear the thinking gears turning from here.