Tree Trimmers on strike

Years ago, I had a union job only because there was no other option than to join the union.

What a bunch of Bull-droppings.

Anyhow, one thing about the story of the OP, is that if the workers can afford to strike, then they can afford to work for the pay that was offered.

That's one problem with striking sometimes, is that it is like an advertisement showing the workers choose to stand around on the street all day doing nothing productive.
 
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Thursday, three busloads of non-union tree trimmers were brought in from Ohio to man the tree trucks. They were greeted by the 50 striking members.

[/ QUOTE ]Is that legal in the US??? Breaking a strike by 'flying' new crew in is illegal in Holland. Strike breakers are IMO complete asshol*s that should be puked out of the industry.
I am a union member for 27 years now. Even though I am self employed for the last 12 years.

No respect from me for strike breakers.
 
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Thursday, three busloads of non-union tree trimmers were brought in from Ohio to man the tree trucks. They were greeted by the 50 striking members.

[/ QUOTE ]Is that legal in the US??? Breaking a strike by 'flying' new crew in is illegal in Holland. Strike breakers are IMO complete asshol*s that should be puked out of the industry.
I am a union member for 27 years now. Even though I am self employed for the last 12 years.

No respect from me for strike breakers.

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I've had friends in unions, who striked.

The employers simply hired replacement workers.

It would make sense, because its the union workers who are refusing to do the work, not the employers forcing them out. At least if its a strike and not a lock-out by the employer.

I don't think that the union workers should let it bother them, since they willingly have left the positions open to be filled in the meantime.

If the employer was violationg a contract, now that would be a good reason to be angry.
 
A study of the labor movement and the gains made by workers would be a good use of time.

How can the company be considered anything but operating in bad faith? They haven't negotiated a contract since, when, the beginning of the year? It is very easy to make a story about how a tree company could face the same circumstances with a client...how long would you work for a client if they asked you to work and they would pay you when you were done...but didn't have a fixed price.

The union movement sure has its faults and hasn't always been the best steward of labor. On the other hand, anyone who makes a living as a blue collar worker or from people in the middle class can thank the work of the organizers of the unions for what we have now. The labor movement created the middle class...that is without argument. Before you ask me to prove it...go do some reading for yourself. Don't start tossing links back at me, you won't convince me otherwise.

Joe Hill Lives!

Paul Robeson:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8Kxq9uFDes&feature=related

Joan Baez's voice is easier on MY ears:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f2J4ceCikI&feature=related
 
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Thursday, three busloads of non-union tree trimmers were brought in from Ohio to man the tree trucks. They were greeted by the 50 striking members.

[/ QUOTE ]Is that legal in the US??? Breaking a strike by 'flying' new crew in is illegal in Holland. Strike breakers are IMO complete asshol*s that should be puked out of the industry.
I am a union member for 27 years now. Even though I am self employed for the last 12 years.

No respect from me for strike breakers.

[/ QUOTE ] Unfortunately I believe it is legal where we are at. I'm going to try to respond to some points and maybe clear some things up, but be warned I'm dead tired from lack of sleep and trying to deal with a crazy situation. Wow, I simply can't believe some of the responses to this situation. "Afford to strike?" Are you kidding me? Is this what America has become? Striking is not about whether one can afford it or not. It is about being united, as a group of employees to reach a common goal usually involving wages or benefits. This is usually accomplished by work stoppages or other means. Also the strike would likely be initiated and facilitated by a labor union after a membership vote. In a nut shell it empowers employees to stand up against an employers offering of wages, benefits, or concessions of such. This may be a scary proposition to some. I understand that a good portion of buzzers are small business owners and may take an employers point of view, but this really involves some of the largest tree company's in the world--big business if you will. I am not going to get into a argument about capitalism, the recession, or economics. We all know the biggest fish with the biggest mouth takes the biggest bite. Striking lets the little fish attempt to keep the big fish in check somewhat. We are all lucky to have a job or operate a business given the current state of the economy. I for one most certainly cannot afford to strike, but I do have the backbone to do so in the face of such a horrible proposal. I won't hesitate to say most of our membership can't afford it either. I feel lucky to be able to do so. As Jcareful already stated the timing of the strike has nothing to do with the storms and any claim is false to the best of my knowledge.
We have a very intensive apprenticeship program with multiple pay scales based on time, ability and knowledge. Line clearance is very different from residential tree trimming. I'm not going to beat that horse here. Unless you have done it for a contractor, you cannot fully appreciate the work that gets done. I have about an equal amount of time on both sides and have respect for both. I'm not going to talk about wages or contracts with this situation still occuring. I'm starting to ramble so.... Jcareful, I'm glad you chimed in. I didn't get a chance to talk to you today. PM me.
 
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Thursday, three busloads of non-union tree trimmers were brought in from Ohio to man the tree trucks. They were greeted by the 50 striking members.

[/ QUOTE ]Is that legal in the US??? Breaking a strike by 'flying' new crew in is illegal in Holland. Strike breakers are IMO complete asshol*s that should be puked out of the industry.
I am a union member for 27 years now. Even though I am self employed for the last 12 years.

No respect from me for strike breakers.

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I've had friends in unions, who striked.

The employers simply hired replacement workers.

It would make sense, because its the union workers who are refusing to do the work, not the employers forcing them out. At least if its a strike and not a lock-out by the employer.

I don't think that the union workers should let it bother them, since they willingly have left the positions open to be filled in the meantime.

If the employer was violationg a contract, now that would be a good reason to be angry.

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Our contract at the end of last year included us getting paid holidays and vacations. We were told at the beginning of this year that our contract was "frozen." If a contract is "frozen," wouldn't you assume that everything would be the same as it were at the end of the previous contract year? Strangely enough we don't have any vacations or holidays but our contract is still "frozen." It feels kind of violating to me.
 
FROZEN WAGES, A contract that includes further wage freezes and the loss of negotiated benefits that came at the expense of a wage increase. What are some of you not getting here. On top of that the employer was about to lock them out! So, it was accept the deal or be locked out, that was the offer. The union took strike action instead. I've been in a union once long ago but have otherwise never had a collective agreement to provide me any security.

Employers find it all to ease to blatantly ignore labor laws that benefit the employee but will readily leverage anything that inures to their benefit. How many here get paid or pay cash for any hours over 40/wk? How many don't give or get any vacation days? What about the pressure to not claim a workplace accident? But if the state you're in is an "at will" state then employers are all but willing to apply that rule when terminating someone. Oh and look at how many ignore OSHA.

Sorry but, that is the sort of stuff that needs to stop if a company wants to be seen by everyone as a professional outfit.
 
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Thursday, three busloads of non-union tree trimmers were brought in from Ohio to man the tree trucks. They were greeted by the 50 striking members.

[/ QUOTE ]Is that legal in the US??? Breaking a strike by 'flying' new crew in is illegal in Holland. Strike breakers are IMO complete asshol*s that should be puked out of the industry.
I am a union member for 27 years now. Even though I am self employed for the last 12 years.

No respect from me for strike breakers.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've had friends in unions, who striked.

The employers simply hired replacement workers.

It would make sense, because its the union workers who are refusing to do the work, not the employers forcing them out. At least if its a strike and not a lock-out by the employer.

I don't think that the union workers should let it bother them, since they willingly have left the positions open to be filled in the meantime.

If the employer was violationg a contract, now that would be a good reason to be angry.

[/ QUOTE ]

Our contract at the end of last year included us getting paid holidays and vacations. We were told at the beginning of this year that our contract was "frozen." If a contract is "frozen," wouldn't you assume that everything would be the same as it were at the end of the previous contract year? Strangely enough we don't have any vacations or holidays but our contract is still "frozen." It feels kind of violating to me.

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How many vacation days a year did you get?

How many paid holidays a year did you get?

How much does a foreman make per hr in your union?

What else is the union fighting for? How large of a wage increase?

What else is at stake here?



I find it alarming that these unions who cry to the general public for help and try to blame every problem on the utility, wont post any of their contracts, or even speak of the figures within that contract to the same public they want help from.
 
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FROZEN WAGES, A contract that includes further wage freezes and the loss of negotiated benefits that came at the expense of a wage increase. What are some of you not getting here. On top of that the employer was about to lock them out! So, it was accept the deal or be locked out, that was the offer. The union took strike action instead. I've been in a union once long ago but have otherwise never had a collective agreement to provide me any security.

Employers find it all to ease to blatantly ignore labor laws that benefit the employee but will readily leverage anything that inures to their benefit. How many here get paid or pay cash for any hours over 40/wk? How many don't give or get any vacation days? What about the pressure to not claim a workplace accident? But if the state you're in is an "at will" state then employers are all but willing to apply that rule when terminating someone. Oh and look at how many ignore OSHA.

Sorry but, that is the sort of stuff that needs to stop if a company wants to be seen by everyone as a professional outfit.

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It may depend on where someone's thinking is, as to how they deal with it in their expectations.

A person in business who sees the economy and income in a downturn, understands that they will be making less money and deals with it likewise.

Whether employees or union workers understand the same ebbs and flows just depends on the individual.

How they view it will probably depend on whether or not the employer is sharing or not.
 
Why are you guys beating up on your fellow tree workers? Are they the bad guys? It is amazing to see the fragmentation that can get going.

If the workers are expected to tell you what they get paid...stop...ask the company owner what their profits are. Why is labor the one who is always painted as greedy?

A prime example of the loss of workers rights is WalMart. What family controls the money? Before Sam Walton died he was one of the riches people in the US, go look at his business model, it worked to make him and his family RICH. At the expense of the workers.

Anyone who thinks that the workers should continue without a contract should share experiences where they've worked for a client without a contract. What happened?

The Law is the law...what is the legality of not following a signed contract? My Dad was a union shop steward when I was in high school. I got to learn a bit about negotiations then and the legalities. Contract negotiations don't start the day after the contract expires. They start months before. The catch is, who is negotiating in good faith and who is going through the motions?
 
whats funny about walmart is that they keep their empoyees so poor (part time work)that they all qualify for government assistance and health care. meanwhile the waltons and the execs get more money than god.
 
How many vacation days a year did you get?

How many paid holidays a year did you get?

How much does a foreman make per hr in your union?

What else is the union fighting for? How large of a wage increase?

What else is at stake here?





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I'm just interested to see how much better off union guys are then those of us that are non-union.
 
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If the workers are expected to tell you what they get paid...stop...ask the company owner what their profits are. Why is labor the one who is always painted as greedy?



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First, I think that no company ownership needs to tell anybody what their profits are. It can be detrimental in several ways.

In regards to labor being painted as "greedy", that may stem from the average labor negotiations and news coverage.

I can't recall a news story where the workers or labor unions beat the company to "the punch" by volunteering a list of people for lay-offs or pay-cuts.

In short, it seems that labor is most often seen as not taking the initiative to yield when decreases are essential.

Now it the labor is communicating and volunteering well ahead of time, it would do good to make that known.
 
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I'm just interested to see how much better off union guys are then those of us that are non-union.

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Probably not much difference between being union and being self-employed.
 
Tom

With you model outlined above, NONE of use should be working unless its a union shop.

I would like to know whats at stake here? Everyone else in AMerica is suffering, taking furlows, layoffs, pay decreases, yet unions are growing and asking for more.

I dont feel this country needs unions any longer. There are enough federal regulations in place because of the work the great unions did in the early and mid 1900's.



And you also asked why they hould tell us. THEY made it a public lynching. Since they are driving the point home that the co. is a bunch of scumbags who are getting rich, and kicking them out of their jobs, we have a right to know whats at stake. Dont come crying for help and not expect questions to be asked.



Did the co. kick them out, or did the union boys strike? Seems up until 11:59 they had a job that gave their families checks every week.........?
 
It's about giving your word and keeping it. A contract is your word backed up by the Law. Why are the climbers being beatup when they have lived up to, and beyond, their agreed contract?
 
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How many vacation days a year did you get?

How many paid holidays a year did you get?

How much does a foreman make per hr in your union?

What else is the union fighting for? How large of a wage increase?

What else is at stake here?





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I'm just interested to see how much better off union guys are then those of us that are non-union.

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I don't feel a problem with people knowing what we make so here is your list.
10 vacation days, 12 holidays, roughly 24/hr.
The union is fighting to keep our vacations and holidays which we have already paid for in the past. I have heard rumors of an increase of 3% to our pay package but I do not know if we are pushing for this. I hope we aren't as I am happy with our previous contract. I don't think with the current state of the economy we should be asking for a raise.
 
Why I don't like unions is because they have taken the true market out of the equation and have created a false market. They may have been helpful at one time when there were monopolies and no other game in town, but now the unions have become as greedy as they claim companies are. Not necessarily the workers out there on the line, but all the reps and others who make a living out of agitating.

The rest of the country has to tighten its belt, but unions believe they are above that. They think that for some reason they deserve more, and that everyone else to pay for it. Do you think the company will? A little, but mostly those costs will be passed on to the customer. And when the employer cannot afford it because the customers are going somewhere else, they close the business and a bunch of folks don't have any job at all. In the mean time, the customer is forced to pay more than the product/service is worth because its value has been artificially increased. And unions involved with govt are even worse. Their demands cause huge amounts of suffering for large groups of people when services can't be offered any more.

85% of the state of California's budget goes for medical and pension bennies for all the union folks around the state, working and retired. 85%!!! Yeah, California is in great shape now. Thanks!

The company I arborist for joined a union last year. We do the same quality work, in the same amount of time, but for public works jobs have to charge about 25% more for prevailing wage jobs and 50% more for federally funded because of the artificial price increase we are forced to pay. We pay our guys for private sector work on the high end of what climbers and groundmen go for around here, but between the increase to the workers who don't deserve it and all the bennies, it gets jacked in a hurry.

Because these are public works jobs, I want to say thanks to all of you who are paying our guys more money through your taxes to do the same work we could be doing at a cheaper price - in an economy such as this. But, it's OK. The govt has plenty of money, right?

And no, I'm not a part of that union. My wages actually went down (salary to hourly) because I need a job and am trying to help keep the company's doors open. My boss hasn't cashed all of his checks so we could make payroll. That's what people do when the economy goes south. It wouldn't be so bad but the private sector has dried up substationally. Yes, public works have kept the doors open, but my opinion stays the same. In fact if everyone didn't have to charge so much, there would probably be more public funds for more projects. How many projects won't get funded because the gov't blew it's over-inflated wad on a few instead of spreading it out to the many?
 
10 vacation days is normal, but 12 holidays!? Seems like 6 too many, IMO. I mean good for you guys on negotiating those, but damn!

24/hr, is that for guys who climb, and ruin crews proficiently. Or anyone who makes the "grade/level"?
 
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Why I don't like unions is because they have taken the true market out of the equation and have created a false market. They may have been helpful at one time when there were monopolies and no other game in town, but now the unions have become as greedy as they claim companies are. Not necessarily the workers out there on the line, but all the reps and others who make a living out of agitating.

The rest of the country has to tighten its belt, but unions believe they are above that. They think that for some reason they deserve more, and that everyone else to pay for it. Do you think the company will? A little, but mostly those costs will be passed on to the customer. And when the employer cannot afford it because the customers are going somewhere else, they close the business and a bunch of folks don't have any job at all. In the mean time, the customer is forced to pay more than the product/service is worth because its value has been artificially increased. And unions involved with govt are even worse. Their demands cause huge amounts of suffering for large groups of people when services can't be offered any more.

85% of the state of California's budget goes for medical and pension bennies for all the union folks around the state, working and retired. 85%!!! Yeah, California is in great shape now. Thanks!

The company I arborist for joined a union last year. We do the same quality work, in the same amount of time, but for public works jobs have to charge about 25% more for prevailing wage jobs and 50% more for federally funded because of the artificial price increase we are forced to pay. We pay our guys for private sector work on the high end of what climbers and groundmen go for around here, but between the increase to the workers who don't deserve it and all the bennies, it gets jacked in a hurry.

Because these are public works jobs, I want to say thanks to all of you who are paying our guys more money through your taxes to do the same work we could be doing at a cheaper price - in an economy such as this. But, it's OK. The govt has plenty of money, right?

And no, I'm not a part of that union. My wages actually went down (salary to hourly) because I need a job and am trying to help keep the company's doors open. My boss hasn't cashed all of his checks so we could make payroll. That's what people do when the economy goes south. It wouldn't be so bad but the private sector has dried up substationally. Yes, public works have kept the doors open, but my opinion stays the same. In fact if everyone didn't have to charge so much, there would probably be more public funds for more projects. How many projects won't get funded because the gov't blew it's over-inflated wad on a few instead of spreading it out to the many?

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um... fellas... any of you all care to respond to this post?
 
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